Maybe controversial, but I think vanish should be entirely removed as a DPS cooldown for all specs. The bloat is terrible. I also think SnD should be removed entirely.
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No qualms with what you mentioned as outlaw specific issues. Though regarding theme/visuals I am on the complete opposite side of the coin where changing combat to a pirate themed spec was from my PoV not a change I cared for.
Combat historically has been the more brawler, less stealthy, use swords spec. They should have just built on that pre-existing paradigm (which generally they have done). I donât overly resonate with the fantasy of being a swashbuckler lol
Though that is neither here nor there at this point as that ship (nice little pun lol) has long sailed. I also fully acknowledge that there are others that really enjoy the pirate theme so at this point I embrace our buccaneer bros
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Biggest troll ever.
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To compensate for the loss of CDR. The CD of dance should be lowered to 30-40 seconds to compensate for the huge loss of damage. Outside of dance, the spec does no damage. We need to be in Shadow Dance as much as possible with very little down time. Either lower the cd of Dance or make it faster to farm back Dance charges.
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Agreed one of the biggest things that will need to be addressed is damage without CDR we lose a lot of uptime on Shadow Dance. The entire spec revolves around shadow dance uptimeâŚ
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They functionally are making SnD passive, Vanish has always had offensive utility. Though I can agree that maybe too much offensive utility has been pushed into a historically defensive ability.
Agree with button bloat but the overall changes will help with this:
- Removal of Sepsis
- SnD being passive
- Tea Passive
They just need to actually address the fact that they will completely neuter Sub by removing CDR
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Or maybe put Dance at 3 charges since symbols will have 3 charges? Just a thought.
The Thistle Tea change feels bad because of the mastery buff it provides. Not to mention most players just used a macro for Tea anyway⌠so it didnt really contribute to button bloat.
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it had enough offensive utility back when you would vanish to apply a fatter rupture
but nowâŚwith subterfuge, and so much power tied to stealth for all specs, but especially assa with indiscriminate carnage, vanish simply is not worth it defensively.
add on that the 1.5 seconds nerfed duration, and you have yourself a proper dps CD.
itâs bad. itâs very bad.
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gotta admit, wasnât really expecting Thistle Tea to go passive over Slice and Dice, but Iâm not part of the small indie company.
really curious sometimes if thereâs a single rogue player in their current design team
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i wonder if we could at least get sepsis back on a 1 min cd
hear me out, for deathstalker, if ambush from stealth remains the only thing that applies the mark, perhaps the ambushes from sepsis could also apply it
itâs a bandaid fix, but it beats burning a vanish so you can play your hero talent tree
Does anyone know if Lingering Darkness is bugged? It shows 0% increased shadow damage not sure if its just a tooltip bug? Donât see anything on details and it doesnât really increase the base damage on skills so canât really tell if its bugged or not?
Marked for Death, Sepsis, and Dreadblades need to be talent choices again.
Taking away talent choices is a bad idea. There are other ways to cut down on the number of buttons Rogues use in a rotation.
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Slice and Dice is effectively passive with the change being made. I think the change is enough, since you can effectively ignore the button.
Vanish not being a dps cd anymore I donât think wholly is a controversial opinion.
I think for sub, shadowdust being removed appears to be a can of worms (main source for dps value on vanish). Personally not a fan of shadowdust, but I wonât say that warrants removal.
Crackshot is the main thing for outlaw, and I think that is fine, so long as alternatives are viable. Crackshot should not be the main focus of a spec that historically did not care much for stealth.
Assassination I think has too many stealth based dps interactions, with improved garrote, master assassin, indiscriminate carnage, and deathstalkerâs mark. At a minimum, I think carnage should get removed from a stealth requirement along with the mark. The former is mildly aggravating to me in m+ personally, and the latter I do feel can be detrimental, since having an entire hero tree mechanic tied to stealth is probably not the healthiest.
To repeat an idea I saw for carnage, every x sec, get a stack of a buff. For Y stacks of a buff, apply rupture to targets equal to stack count. Rupture is more important than garrote in a multi target scenario (energy, scent of blood stacks, and now bone spike), so should be the thing spread. Improved garrote in its current form I think is fine.
The issue is that the entire spec especially for PvP revolves around having CDR. It impacts everything.
- Damage
- Less Dance uptime
- Less blades uptime
- Survival
- Less uptime on all defensives
- Less uptime on healing (vial)
- The shadow dance heal nerf also really sucks. Moving the heal only to vanish is monumentally worse
- Mobility
- Less sprint uptime
- Less step uptime
- CC/utility
- Less usage of gouge, kidney, blind, kick etc
The mere addition of 2 symbol charges is criminal.
They want to remove CDR that is fine I understand the rationale, but they need to:
- Drastically readjust all aspects of the spec to keep it functional
- It also just removes depth from the spec. Though I will say rogue/sub is already more involved than most other melee counterparts
- Lets remove all CDR from all classes and specs for parity otherwise what in fact is the end goal ??
- Warriors and mages are the immediate classes that come to mind with CDR mechanics (prob other classes as well?)
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Agreed. We need more players speaking out about this.
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First time playing rogue so I donât have as much valuable input as other long time rogues, but my main gripe is the Tea change.
It wouldnât be a huge issue if the mastery wasnât in the talent, but because it is, and because it lines up well with Assas cooldown windows, the change becomes really bad.
If they insist on keeping the change and making it automatic below 50 energy, then either make it a choice node, bake the mastery into something else, or bake energy in SND.
The issue here is that CDR isnât something you just slap on a class and call it a day, thatâs what dust was and ended up choking the spec.
Fury warriors on the opposite have nothing to do with this, their CDR functions as a core aspect of their rotation and isnât a 2m gated overbearing lump CDR that came out of nowhere. Mages I can see a conversation.
Yes sub needs work now with dust removal, but that removal will enable said work to start
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Removing Sepsis from all three specs is a bad idea as well as Marked for Death. It just doesnât make sense as you are removing QOL tools.
Sepsis allows you to use stealth moves on demand which is great with hero talents like Deathstalker. And Marked For Death allows you to save energy and globals as you donât need to spend that energy and globals to build CPs which was a great help for a spec like Assassination.
And this is why pruning the wrong tools makes things worse when there are other ways to simplify rotations for Rogues.
Rogues are heading backwards in terms of quality of life features. Only SND change I would consider a net positive right now.
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Has this change not gone through with thistle tea? Seems the exact same to me
This is a PTR feedback, its not live