If this was any other class/spec in the game this thread would have probably reached a count nearing the thousands for just how game breaking the removal of CDR is for the spec.
Even looking back at the beta forums and general rogue forums it’s clear that Sub already is the least played spec.
Catering to the smallest percentage of casual PvE players to gut a predominately PvP spec is nonsensical. Especially when in large for the entirety of the games existence Assassin/Outlaw (Combat) have always been the predominant PvE specs.
Who exactly are you trying to please with this change?
Gutting
Damage
Survival
Self Healing
Mobility
CC/utility
For what?? Literally so much skill expression comes from having CDR not everything has to fit into a mold of 123. For the casual PvE players that couldn’t cope with the nuance of CDR then play one of the other two dominant rogue specs or better yet play any other melee as most of them are far more simpler and linear to play.
I wouldn’t be so frustrated with this change if they actually considered the sweeping ramifications of these changes and attempted to readjust accordingly … extra charges on symbols just aint it. The notes just read as compete indifference or worse complete lack of understanding.
And I ignore socially maladapted pricks with an inflated sense of self-importance, so join the mute list. Some of you people are terminally online with your mannerisms.
I like those solutions. Personally, I do not like having thistle tea as a extra button but its mandatory for snap shotting bigger kingsbanes. I would be happy with the mastery removal, or passive but the gameplay having to use it with master assasin for huge KB ticks is to much
It also is a nerf to Sub where you want to align tea in your dance window. As long as it has an active mastery component it will be a nerf to all 3 specs.
Either they make the mastery a passive bonus for all 3 specs
Remove the mastery and move the damage budget somewhere else
Make it a choice node.
I personally would rather have the energy econ baked into the core kit and this final tier capstone changed to something more meaningful. If tea remains I would prefer it being passive as long as I didnt have to micro manage energy to align in my damage/burst windows cause that would be horrible gameplay.
shadowheart still exists
you would think it was a placeholder talent, the first to be changed, but no
that 2% leech during stealth is here to stay
and the new acrobatic strike, left there to remind everyone of the good old days.
and tea… going from bad to worse. a talent that everyone was against in DF beta, we made it work, now changed, gotta make it work again
also fatebound needs to be deleted and remade and deathstalker’s mark not applying from mutilate is just lol at this point
DFA is awesome in PVP now and if it makes its way to PVE that would be a win as well.
I find DFA more valuable as mobility and damaging finisher than Kspree’s ability to ignore roots. Kspree suffers from too many penalties at the moment. High energy cost, the range you can use it from is too short IMO and that is what causes people to Kspree too close to a hit box and be out of position/fall/get cleaved in PVE and PVP.
You have to strafe to its max range to ensure Kspree doens’t kill you in PVE or PVP but if its range was increased by another five yards that would help.
The stagger damage reduction effect on Kspree wouldn’t be needed if you didn’t land inside a hit box all the time. The old Kspree was designed to hit from behind like a Shadow step- Eviscerate combo but five times. And you landed behind a target but at a certain distance.
New Acro stacks fall off too quickly to really benefits in most PVE and PVP situations. It is nice for questing and leveling but beyond that it is basically super niche like Shadowheart leach.
Shadowheart Leach is just badly designed because Rogues do no gain enough healing from it to matter.
it could be 20% and it would still be a bad talent for sin and outlaw
also, i see they removed sepsis from sub. great. lovely.
perhaps it can be given back to sin, it fits the theme quite nicely
how they could remove sepsis before they removed ER is beyond me
They wont do that. Half the tier sets are made around Symbols. How can they reduce its CD by 5 seconds or increase its duration by 3 in the future 2pc otherwise?
they need to have stuff to “fix” or “improve” at a later date. there must be activity. there have to be changes. results are optional, even undesired, but activity is mandatory
The cdr and tea changes are great. The people complaining have clearly never played the class and it’s fotm for them. This is exactly the direction it needed to go in order to fix button bloat and make it more playable
That is the whole point of blades as our primary DPS cooldown it drastically increases our damage output by increasing damage and allowing for more finishers in the window.
In fact I really like the change to shadow blades makes the cooldown feel far more impactful and having a high of instantly being able to generate max combo points (when it doesn’t bug and only give 6) is fun to me and fits well.
I still overall like the CP builder/spender dynamic. As long as energy econ is in place to support it. The non dance windows definately feels rough in terms of energy econ and CP econ but at least that is in large our “down” window to maintain bleeds, SnD, and prepare for our next damage window etc.
The dynamic of the game is different now the super high for finishers come with the alignment of all modifiers. The pace of the game is faster as well so the spec had to evolve as well.
Though I will say it probably has shifted too far in that direction. Having finishers innately do higher damage and losing some of the modifier creep is something that could be looked at.
So there are really two issues:
Energy econ
Does the kit have enough energy econ to support the flow of the rotation?
Does the spec have enough tools to properly reward and allow us to manage energy?
Finishers
Have finishers become too reliant on modifiers to deal real damage?
I will say aligning all modifiers with a juicy darkest night evis def feels chef kiss
You lose all credibility calling out others for not playing the class when you are posting on a DK alt.
I would bet either:
You probably don’t PVP at all let alone on rogue let alone with Sub. Or you PVP on other classes and are happy to see the spec getting gutted in PVP
You are 100% a PVE player and a casual one at that so your bias is clear towards over simplification as that suits your level of play
None of the above is bad its just makes your posts comical.
I would love to be proven wrong on the above but if history is any indicator I probably wont be.
The only thing I agree on is that button bloat for the class/spec has started to become an issue. But the outright removal of CDR without drastically readjusting the entire spec is just sheer delusion if we are being unbiased and honest.
The tea change is also horrible given that the talent isn’t strictly for energy budget but has a tangible dps (mastery) component which all 3 specs are better off manually managing otherwise the change is just a sheer net loss (PS my preference also would for it to be passive but it needs to be changed)
The entire spec operates around having CDR so unless they are willing to re-adjust:
Damage
Survivability
Mobility
Then this change alone is the biggest net L the spec could possibly receive.
Besides theme and visuals my current annoyance with outlaw is as follows:
1- Severe dependence on stealth windows and using vanish for BtE. You already have two specs dedicated to stealth mechanics, why can’t outlaw be different?
2- The ramp up with the current pace of aoe burst and target counts in M+. Outlaw is not only hard capped to 8 targets, but has more of a sustained damage profile that is just not shining in M+ when all the other melee like ret, fury, ww, frost and havoc vomit burst aoe in every pack and somehow maintain similar or better sustained damage.
Even if comparing rogue specs, what is the point of outlaw if assassination has better aoe burst while having better sustained damage as well?
Something has to give. Classes with high burst should not outsustain or match sustained damage only classes and specs.
3- There is no compensation for hardcapped specs. This goes for historically for outlaw, enhancement, and arcane mages where they have hard caps yet historically underpeform in aoe because of it with non-hardcapped fellow specs like fire or frost or assassination or elemental, let alone other classes.
I think balancing hard capped vs non hardcapped by this point is impossible.
As such, consider just giving outlaw and enhancement damage fall offs like everyone else so they don’t become massively outscaled by other non-capped specs as the expansion progresses.
