I doubt engaging in the victim Olympics will be terribly productive, but because so many people on this forum enjoyed dumping on Nathanos, it’s easy to lose sight of the fact that Pyrogar isn’t wrong about how hard the Forsaken are being crapped on. Yes, but muh Teldrassil, etc etc - the point here is that Blizzard is damn near bending over backwards to try and appease Night Elves both here and in Shadowlands, while the Forsaken are almost literally being swept under the rug.
Nathanos (and Sylvanas) soaked up tons of the available screen time in BfA. Nathanos is now dead and Sylvanas is busy concocting the perfect mustache wax for superior twirling. (The other character to get story development for the Horde in BfA, Saurfang, is also now dead.) So yeah. Tons of people are going to sit here and get their jollies over his death, because he was polarizing. But I think Pyrogar has hit on an important point, if buried a little bit under the griping in his OP. The Horde’s story foundation is an absolute disaster, as we’ve spent just about two full expansions undoing the character development that we DID receive, because we’ve had to kill or otherwise lose the characters that got said development.
So yeah. Sit here and cheer if you want, but what is happening is ultimately cheapening the Horde narrative as a whole. Even if you absolutely hated Nathanos, I would think it’s hard to conclude that swapping him for Calia is a positive development in any way, shape, or form.
You nailed it. For awhile now Blizzard has been burning through established characters while putting in as little effort as possible to replace them. They’re clearcutting the forest and planting plastic trees, so to speak.
The biggest shame of this whole Nate situation is how forced into the Horde narrative he was for the start of Legion and all of BFA. He was front and center, having development and screentime while other Horde characters got the leftovers if anything at all.
Take the Battle for Dazar’alor. Rokhan was there, but Blightcaller was running the campaign. We had HIS reaction to Rastakhan’s death in a cinematic, his banter with Alliance leaders such as Shaw and Jaina, and his assistance in the Jaina boss fight. Meanwhile, Rokhan gave occasional one-liners. Nate ran our war campaign, he gave out many of our WQ, he quested with us quite a few times, and he was relevant for every single patch in some way shape or form. Heck, we had sign after sign that Nate had issues with how Sylvanas was acting that could have easily led to a breaking point. All of that for what? Being world bossed?
All of that time that could have been spent developing the Horde (especially Forsaken) roster when it needed it most went into a dead (literally) end. It’s sad and a waste.
I was initially at least open minded toward Calia. But they keep failing to have her do anything interesting. Correct me if I’m wrong but thus far she’s,
Been Derek Proudmoore’s therapist
Talked to Voss about some undead nelves
Stood around in a Horde Council meeting saying nothing of value
Stood around Nordrassil spouting obvious exposition I guess for the very niche group of readers who picked up SR with zero knowledge of WoW’s storyline
Voss, meanwhile, is one of the first characters you interact with in Deathknell and is a major presence throughout Tirisfal. Then she delivers the death blow to both Inquisitor Whitemane and opens the door for the PCs to kill Darmaster Gandling - two of the Forsaken’s greatest enemies.
Some people allege she’s a completely different character in BFA and, not really. She reacts to undeath worse than anyone and goes on a suicidal warpath that nearly leads to her dying alone and in agony in Scholomance.
Her coming full circle and pivoting to helping newly risen Forsaken avoid that same self hatred makes sense. Maybe it’s rushed character development but it wasnt bad development. Makes sense to me.
She also appears to be some SPriest and Sin Rogue hybrid, which are some of the most thematically appropriate specs for the Forsaken.
She also gets at least one cool line of dialogue in SR, which isn’t a lot but she’s the only established Forsaken character who does so I’ll take it.
I’ve no idea why they’re trying to force feed us Calia when far as I can tell nobody asked for or wanted this. Where are the big Calia Menethil fans clamoring for more screentime for her? Maybe they’re too busy at their Paint Drying Appreciation Society meetings to comment.
please justify your answer with three or more complete sentences
This doesn’t count, I’m not compelled by a story that tries to sell me on buying their completely separate book to show the audience the REAL side of a character when this could easily have been accomplished ingame through competent storytelling. The Nathanos that the overwhelming majority of the playerbase sees is not the same Nathanos that is only ever displayed or expanded upon in the books. It makes the development in the book feel more as if some revisionist afterthought.
I’ll concede that trying to whitewash the Forsaken with Calia is one of the dumbest decisions that they can make for the race though, especially with how hamfistedly evil they’ve been portrayed for the entire rest of WoW beforehand. Forsaken have a lot of wasted potential.
I liked Nathanos when I thought he was a jerk with a heart of gold. Like sure he treats me like garbage but he’s gotta care about the Horde as a whole…right? Nope…jerk with a heart of jerk. I’m just sad I can’t get the killing blow but can’t really be mad since Tyrande gets it.
I almost…almost felt sorry for him because he really did seem to love Sylvie and she pretty much just kicked him to the curb once his usefulness ran out. Sucks to be him I guess.
No, I’m not here to argue about Teldrassil with you and debate about who had it worse. I’m here to mourn the loss of the Forsaken’s last developed character as well as another Horde character.
Yyyyes it does, albeit there are very few depictions on Nathanos while he was alive, but the ones that do exist(Primarily Arthas: Rise of the Lich King) depicts him as a pretty average guy while alive. It’s kinda hard to show this side of the character when he’s been undead since his introduction and the only way to portray him this way is through flashbacks and retrospective material.
Would like the more “Deathstalkers” etc combined with like them remembering the past (i mean come on Lordaeron (which is based on roman stuff and catholicism etc aesthetically) knighthood and such stuff with the hordes Code of Honor, it could be neat (we know blizzard cant pull it off homever from experience)
I am talking about HRE stuff .
Anyway as for Nathanos.
I mean come on the guy is gonna be ashvane’d in the inevitable sylvanas raid.
or malkorok’d etc etc. he will be a raid boss with steroids infused in him.
Nathanos had potential in BFA. He seemed to be being built up to challenge Sylvanas. Shame they didn’t go that route. Night elves need their undead boss to kill, and you can’t kill the Powerful, Independent Sylvanas Windrunner so natty ice had to go.