Dps is desirable, but how much time would have even been shaved off that fight if they brought a prot war instead?
We have videos of them doing it in Vanilla.
The taunt thing is only going to give Paladins a problem on specific fights, like Four Horsemen.
GBoK spam for threat is also indiscriminate threat split between all available targets. A Paladin canât choose to make it single target in a situation where there are multiple targets.
Itâs a step closer, but itâs still a bit early to break out the champagne on the whole âPaladins can tank raids now!â.
Isnât that a lot like comparing a hunter to a mage? One can poop water and food to keep their abilities going and the other has to sacrifice coin and bag space to have any hope of doing noticeable damage to anything?
So what???
Post number 11 is where the cost of the reagents originally entered into the thread and it wasnât done in the semi-supportive way that you had put in post 19. It was a criticism meant to invalidate a method a tanking based on the argument of it being economically unsustainable. There are plenty of points left to argue without bringing in the cost of reagents, especially when sometimes paying to play is just the way of life for some classes and/or specs in Classic.
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Well yeah it will be circumstantial with some encounters, but it still work with most fights. Think another problem will be raids that arenât 40 man, or bringing like 25 people to a 40 man raid, or doing a 20 man raid. Need as many of one class as you can get. Less people creates more room for problems.
Squat actually. And very nice point Offdensen.
Paladins start with a full mana bar.
Paladins can use GBoK before the mob even reaches them after they have initially aggro.
Warriors do not start with a full rage bar.
Sunder has to be stacked.
âŚ
Shift is seriously upset this. I wonder how many bug reports heâs placed in an attempt to get it removed so far.
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The highest threat for Warriors isnât going to be opening with Sunder Armour spam.
Theyâll use Shield Slam followed up by a Revenge after they block the first attack. Thatâs a quick ~1450 threat before factoring in the Warriorâs gear(which only affects Shield Slam damage).
Charge(If possible), Bloodrage, and Rage Potion ensure they have more than enough to do that + Shield Block(which procs the Revenge).
So consumeables are ok now? /wink
And I agree with your post, but Warriors will have to sunder stack to increase raid wide DPS at one point.
⌠yep.
Well, depending on when you tanked the content, those things very well could have changed, actually.
Did you only tank MC and Ony in 1.12? Or did you tank it much earlier. Something to consider.
Alas, the point is that our understanding of the mechanics has changed, even if the mechanics (and gear and what-not) hasnât. That isnât to say Paladin suddenly became viable or not, but that the other specs have exceeded their previous limits.
Raiding is part of the game. Not sure what point youâre trying to make.
Yes, but itâs more important in raids, Iâd say. Your TTL in dungeons is inherently higher because the mobs are weaker, and it matters less because you can kill the mobs faster.
Because it isnât necessary.
Well, I could think of a few encounters, and especially trash packs.
Baron Geddon, for example. If the MT gets Living Bomb, youâll need a taunt.
Shazzrah when he teleports into the ranged. OTs need to taunt and pull it back to position. Either they continue tanking it, or MT taunts it back.
Majordomo when the adds are no longer being CCâd. Need a taunt.
While not necessary, a taunt is also useful for any fight where it works. Just like Blessing of Protection, or Innervate, Rebirth, Freedom, Feign Death, etc.
Not really. At worst, Iâve given advice on how to improve, which you say I never do:
I do, actually. But then you folks whine that Iâm being an elitist jerk. I tell a healer how to be mana efficient, and you are there telling me that Iâm laying the blame on the healer. Then I get stupid responses like this:
You just donât like the tips. Hereâs one: I recommend not bringing a Prot or Ret Paladin.
Observe as enraged Paladins rush to respond, not with âI enjoy the spec, so I donât care,â but with objectively quantifiable metrics that prove their spec is capable of dealing the content, but is ultimately inferior to the other specs that fill those respective roles.
Uhh, okay? The only âlook at MEâ post Iâve made was showing off my Fire Resist in a thread I made. I think youâre projecting, or something, because I have no interest in the personal attention. I just enjoy discussing things.
Except I never said they donât work. My very first post in this thread was saying that it does work. I just think the lengths they have to go to in order to make it work makes them inferior tanks, is all.
Same with Ret. It âworksâ insofar as they can deal damage; they just deal far less than every other spec.
Whatever makes you feel better, bud. Enjoy that real life thing thatâs been keeping you busy.
Sort of, yeah.
But no one would disagree that itâs a negative of Hunters that they have to spend money to do their normal DPS rotation.
Yet when I say the same thing about Paladin tanking, thereâs some contention.
So those are things players should consider.
âPaladins can tank raids!â
âSure, but they have to buy several stacks of reagents to be able to hold aggro.â
No, I donât really care about it being economically unsustainable. Even at 12g a minute (my original postâs mistaken cost), with how short fights are in Phase 1, you could easily afford to maintain it during boss fights unless youâre wiping constantly.
I believe itâs a fair criticism that itâs a really silly gimmick just to make the spec capable of holding aggro, and the fact youâre having to use stacks of reagents to do what other classes can do for free.
It also only addresses one of the issues with Paladin tanking.
Of course, which is why I brought them up.
In a 40 man raid? Not much, but faster is faster. I notice people make this argument a lot, as if it somehow refutes the argument. Itâs higher DPS. It doesnât matter how much of an impact that DPS increase has on kill speeds.
Sure, a single personâs DPS wonât make a significant impact on kill speeds. However, there is a certain mentality associated with accepting a Prot Paladin that I think is going to result in a lot of others doing lower DPS, as well.
Iâd be interested to see logs of Prot Paladins doing Onyxia and compare them to ânormalâ groups. Unfortunately, no Prot Paladins have uploaded their logs.
Actually, they very easily can.
Can be stacked by Fury Warriors.
Not at all. Iâm greatly amused by it, though.
None. If it was a bug present in vanilla, it should be in Classic.
No changes.
Itâs not the sole responsibility of a Prot Warrior to do that. You can easily reach 5 stacks of Sunder Armor in the first GCD of the fight.
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2 minute CD potion consumable is standard practice for all classes. Iâd just advise as a Paladin you probably want to save that for a Mana Potion =P
Warrior tanks do Sunder a lot, but the point is more that they open with a strong threat generation in Shield Slam + Revenge. After that they SA while they wait for those things to come off cooldown.
I tanked before that as well.
Using Judged Fury + SoR with a fast weapon, ie Hanzo then Blackguard.
Holy damage interaction was static, so the faster the weapon the more threat
Threat from Righteous Fury was actually a threat nerf at the time because Fury + SoR completely outpaced DPS early on. Hence the discovery of Paladin 2 Hander Judged Fury + SoC tanking!
Also Consecration was the 21 point Ret talent at the time, so paladins were specâd SoC and Cons, there was no Holy Shield.
But I tanked until mid AQ 40, I then started encountering issues I couldnât solve.
But with Classic maybe other Paladins will.
Hybrids have always been told we couldnât do something. Prior to Dire Maul Paladins were told we couldnât heal instances as an exampleâŚwe proved them wrong with that as well.
As a result the Hybrids formed communities and started tacking issue we were told we couldnâtâŚlike a horse with the bit in its mouth 
If there is a way to go past Twin Emps as a Prot Paladins then I trust in the community that they will find it.
Either way they should have fun with the game, doing what they can, and pushing boundaries as much as possible as long as it works.
Remember Druids were also told we couldnât tank.
And yet Druids are the best tank until AQ when finally Warriors have parity with us.
Just because most donât recognize something as truth, doesnt mean it isnât truth.
Just finished my health insurance infoâŚnow I have to fill out a new Life Insurance policyâŚGod I hate paperwork 
Well, not quite. They were told they werenât as good tanks as Warriors.
Iâm still a bit on the fence about that one, even as a Feral tank myself. I think weâre roughly equal, or better until Warriors are better geared.
Indeed, but just because people didnât realize the truth about one thing doesnât confirm the truth of another thing.
If people start rising to the challenge, uploading logs, proving that Prot Paladins are good, Iâll reconsider my position. Until then, at best weâve got evidence they can tank. But then again, a Shadow Priest tanked Ony in vanilla, so⌠thatâs not going to convince me theyâre good tanks.
If people want to come into these threads and say âI know it isnât good, but I enjoy it,â fine. Iâm not going to argue with personal preferences.
from the guy who said 13/15 naxx bosses can be taunted?
lolz
/thread
Yep. Have a list of your own?
yes and it doesnât involve false lists from baddies who posted on Nostalrius who clearly have no idea what they are talking aboutâŚ
https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=5460#p47936
lolz at that list
again, have fun taunting 13/15 bosses in Naxx - plz post pics/videos of your adventures when you do!
Oh, Nostalrius. That server that thought the mobs on the UBRS Rend event were immune to taunt.
Very accurate.
Will do. Have fun leveling in Redridge!
you literally copy pasted the list from that nost forum post in here broheimâŚ
but plz go ahead and try taunting bosses in MC all the way to Naxx
Then⌠Iâm confused. Youâre showing me the same list of bosses and saying Iâm wrong? Haha, what?
Where is your list of bosses that are immune to taunt, âbroheim?â
Works well so far!
that ainât MY list broheim - thatâs where you got YOUR list lol - lay of the pipe mmmk?
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Answer the question, bud.