and you think SoW/JoW with a 1.5 swing speed Flurry axe won’t regen enough mana lol
and yes most raid bosses are immune to taunt
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Because they won’t. Do the math.
Nightfall isn’t in the game yet, and Judgement of the Crusader is a pretty big waste of a debuff slot.
Not even close, bud.
maybe try playing the class/spec and learn something for once
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Are they not working?
I have been noticing my threat meter selectively chooses who and what it shows when I am tanking
Seal of COMMAND and Judgement of COMMAND
SotC = Seal of the Crusader
JotC = Judgement of the Crusader
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do you remember roughly when your post was written?
do you have a wayback machine link on hand?
They are working.
Ah, right. Crusader would be SotC. Sorry, I just remember you making that thread on the Nostralius forums about stacking every rank of SotC, so that’s what came to mind.
I just didn’t think a Prot Paladin would have Command, since they’re not Ret, and Consecration would better for general tanking purposes. I guess that wouldn’t really apply if you’re doing GBoK spam instead, though.
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You really don’t understand the class at all, and you are trying to discuss with people that main it since years.
SoC is Seal of Command, not Crusader (SotC).
You can see that even with 5% mana, Askalon was regenerating it really fast with JoW, SoW and Flurry Axe; i don’t understand how can you say that mana is still a problem in long fights, he even had mana pots to use, i’d like to see your math to be able to see my mistake on what i’m seeing on these videos.
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I’d say roughly half of them, notably dragons, zul’jin, twin emps(?)-there’s a list out there I keep losing- but any fight requiring swaps can be creatively worked around relatively easily. People don’t remember how swaps were performed, especially in TBC with less tanks to rely on and even more bosses immune to taunt. If you think you can be more specific to which bosses are and aren’t immune to taunt, and which require swaps, and why you think paladins can’t swap them, especially with a warrior off tank. Otherwise, you really don’t have any idea what you’re talking about and are just repeating something you’ve heard.
We actually have spreadsheets for of this stuff.
there’s this mindset, where in vanilla you can do anything, but counter to that there’s this mindset that you’re useless unless you’re a warrior, rogue, or mage, and hybrids are useless at anything except healing, when in reality they were only tuned 90-95%(see Kevin Jordan) of pures, when in reality people are doing ten times the damage the fights were tuned for and realistically, you could have a raid full of druids or paladins, succeed and still have reasonable kill times.
Everyone has to have it installed for it to count everyone, because ranks are in the combat log anymore, and its not accurate, because not everything is known about threat. We don’t know how much every spell in the game does, increase or decrease. Buffs are pretty easy but not everything is so simple.
I’m dual boxing paladins, and I’ve had multiple instances where the threat meter shows one having double the threat of the other yet still doesn’t have aggro.
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Why are so against this strat? It’s a clever use of game mechanics that might actually make Paladin tanking viable on certain fights. If a player is willing to pay for the reagents, that’s their business. Let them have fun, in the end all that matters is bosses die.
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JoC was referring to Judging Seal of Command NOT Judged Seal of Crusader.
Which would have been immediately recognized by anyone with any experience on a Paladin because…
Judged Crusader is a PHYSICAL judgement…and can proc Nightfall.
And yes I know Nightfall isn’t out yet.
Many raid bosses are immune…which isn’t the point.
Taunt is NOT needed until much much later.
Seal of Wisdom + Judged Wisdom + Imp BoW + consumables = More than enough mana to get the job done.
Its not just possible, its been done, and it was done 15 years ago!
You have this annoying tendency of posting in threads where you clearly have no in depth knowledge about what your posting about.
Like your gem that +50% time to live is a small boost in TTL…which is actually a huge gain in TTL. Which clearly shows that you have absolutely no clue about high end tanking at all.
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21/30 is far better than 11/31/9 for single target-SoC does more damage than SoR, even with many 1hs, and wisdom is great threat, especially with flurry, for single target and especially multiple. You could even run a 2h if you wanted, block in many cases, you’d only be getting the armor from the shield, in which case you could use boosted devo aura, with enough paladins in the group.
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Bingo!
Also as Ret you can use Rank 1 Judgement of Command (notice I wrote it out that time 
) to maintain Vengeance.
With reduced cooldown on judgements, Rank 1 gives you a +50% opportunity gain to maintain Vengeance without torching your mana pool as Ret. 
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I’m not really sure what arguing about how reliable a Paladin tank will be in Classic at this point.
I say just wait and see how they do if Righteous Fury isn’t bugged.
Will the average guild be able to progress through BWL and beyond with Pally tanks? Let’s wait and see how it goes.
Righteous fury isn’t even needed for blessing spam to work, it just makes it even better.
I think the average pug would be able to progress with a paladin tank. I’ve pugged a lot of normals on retail over the years and I’d say most vanilla bosses are easier than the normals. I’ll find out soon enough because I’ll be tanking while dual-boxing ;p
1.5 silver, you buy 20 with 30 silver.
Doesn’t sound too bad to me, slightly expensive sport like people who go jet skiing.
The real downside might be having enough bag space to tank an entire Molten Core Raid like that
I imagine it takes less bag space than arrows and soul shards ;p
I have been testing these things with Askalon (I am in both videos) and having in depth discussions with lots of other serious prot paladins. It really solves not just the threat problems for us (Which to be truthful weren’t that bad to begin with) but the Greater Blessing of Kings spam is VERY mana efficient. It is 150 mana per cast equivalent to a rank 1 consecrate.
With 9 Mages in the raid Askalon is doing 1000+ threat per cast for virtually no mana spent. If we wanted to we could also use Distilled Wisdom flask to generate even more casts but its not really even needed.
With the efficient mana cost on top of the many mana consumables we have access to it makes us more viable, Just one step closer to figuring it all out.
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Sorry Theloras I don’t. It was sooooo long ago.
It was also the days before we had stickies too, so people had to bump all 3 threads.
I had the original Ret thread with 100,000 Seal of Command procs parsed to show, that at the time, SoC was 5 PPM. People still didn’t believe me until Blizzard stepped in to confirm it when SoC went to 7 ppm…made me want to slam my head into my desk.
Also we had a great Holy thread that predated Dire Maul, back when people said we couln’t heal either, look how that turned out 
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no worries - i’ll try to take a look for it later today
but in the meantime, you should come and join the paladin theory crafting discord - https://discord.gg/euKTyRY
all the top paladins from around the world are on there including askalon and many others
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