WoG 120-180k on missing hp…
Why this aura nerf is just being let along month after month is beyond me.
RSS mode FoL heals 30k 
That is what happens when there is too many finisher modifier talents is around…
Oh yea sorry, from my other post, I would have Templar Strike replace Improved Blade of Justice, as a BoJ replacement talent.
Templar Strike / Templar Slash
Blades of Justice becomes a 2 part combo.Templar Strike slashes an enemy for x Radiant damage.
- Alternates between Templar Strike and Templar Slash
Templar Slash strikes an enemy for Y Radiant damage and is always a critical strike.
- Inherits Blade of Justice benefits.
There’s flexibility in the design, if they can make the timer continue to exist and keep that unique interaction because of Art of War, that’s cool. However, if it wouldn’t flow smoothly, they could simply alternate between the two abilities, giving every other BoJ an improved chance to crit.
I think too many Ret Paladin abilities are too similar in design.
Same problem on a couple specs I enjoy. 1 ability can hit for 4x its normal amount on a buffed crit in PvP, with 50% crit damage nerf.
Also, Make HoW END LIVES hurls holy bonk reduced by vers to 70k damage crit
yall trying to reinvent the spec when the issue is a simple line change to specific talents
also there is no button bloat, this is as simple ret has ever been
Anytime I see you respond in any forum, you’re just trying to invalidate other people’s suggestions and act like your own opinion matters.
Thinking Ret needs to stay in it’s bland form and shouldn’t be changed is the true comedy.
The talents desperately need flavor and it shouldn’t stop there.
No point in refuting either cause I especially don’t care about your thoughts and enjoy players with real constructive criticism.
it becomes a issue when peoples reinvention make worse issues or clash with their own design for the spec ya.
the spec is far from bland, infact its “image” is the last thing that needs to be fixed.
Something that I would like to see as well for PvP, hopefully when the PvP Talents get revamped, is one that rewards you for playing with multiple paladins.
Playing a Paladin in SS, it feels really bad zoning into a match and just hoping you don’t have another Paladin in the game because Forbearance.
Forbearance is an outdated mechanic, but if it’s not going to change, there should be something that’s at least an option, that benefits multiple paladins.
Example:
Army of the Light [PvP Talent]
When you use Divine Steed, *Divine Shield or Divine Protection, all Paladins / up to three Paladins, within your Aura also gain the effect.*Does not cause Forbearance.
(Obviously doesn’t have to be these spells)
Class stacking for shared buffs and shared DR is already pretty bad in PvP, Forbearance on top of that is just miserable so again, it would be nice to have something.
Poster you quoted is actually saying the opposite I think. Spenders are not strong enough.
Remember back in bfa people loved posting screenshots of their damage distribution and it was like 80% tv and the other 20% everything else. Id rather have that over weak finishers.
How come people have above 1M health and my “finisher” hits for 50k outside of wings. Ret went from having absolute NUKES of attacks to these baby hits that certainly feel like we are not applying any preassure. We cannot be dancing around the extremes. One tapping people with one radiant decree is just as stupid as requiring 30 full seconds of crusade and so many FVs to make a dent on someone.
Finishing the rss round with 9M damage and I felt like 2M damage.
I understand it, but unless you get all of the modifiers active, they are weak, and they are balanced with all the modifiers active.
We need less modifiers so they can be balanced to be strong.
That was actually a recurring complaint (at least as far I saw in the forums, discord, reddit) that the rest of our kit was hitting like wet noodles.
Just goes to show that they can’t please everyone I guess.
It was also a part of why people hated Ret in PVP regardless of it being manageable.
Since most the damage was packed into TV/FV, when you added all the damage modifier plus unerfed crit damage it would indeed sometime “nuke”.
But turns out that the “fun” out of “nuking” someone has a proportional opposite effect on the person getting “nuked”.
As you point out, huge spike of damage in PVP isn’t fun regardless of the game and it creates unhealthy playstyle for everyone because usually the champ/spec/class/character who can “nuke” usually ends up useless if it can’t.
I don’t think WoW PVP is redeemable.
In my view, it’s one of the worst PVP experience there is on the market and I don’t know why people keep playing it.
Yea but I dont want to one shot people I want my finishers to be strong.
Ret right now is too spammy with these baby fvs that by themselves dont do nothing. They went from one extreme end to the other end where 30seconds of crusade dont feel strong because fv hits like a wet noodle.
One of the reasons for this us hp generation is too high thanks to csaa. Ive been asking for heavy nerfs to csaa for months now and nothings being done. Because we have too much hp finishers cannot be strong so we end up here.
The rotation feels completely upside down.
Why am I trying to hit generators so frequently and HP cap over and over and over?
There’s so much global bloat trying to hit Divine toll, ES, WoA and getting BoJ, judgment and 1 HoW on CD before even thinking about TV that is only done because of the inconvenience of running out of globals after mashing through 20 seconds of button bloat if you don’t do it to uncap your HP.
BoJ is higher priority because with 2tier and expurgation, it hits more than TV
Judgment hits as hard as TV with 2p, more w/ divine toll. HoW hits harder with auto crit.
it only starts feeling like a real rotation weaving generators with spenders after punching through 7-8 globals. That’s the real reason no ret can take Templar strikes in pvp.
All that’s gotta be done is put 2 of 3 ES/FR, Divine Toll, and WoA as a talent to choose and redeem the damage into ret’s other skills
Nerf some of the auto damage in CAA and Divine Arbiter and Empyrean and roll that into TV damage. Chef’s kiss
Done. Global bloat, and priority fixed.
Also FIX FLASH OF LIGHT AND WOG
I dont see gcd bloat what I see is too much hp leading to spenders not being strong enough and the spec being a lot spammy.
Nerf boj reset nerf csaa and bake that spammy damage into templar strikes and fv.
Divine toll is a min cd but being honest Ive always hated it. They could delete it idc.
Remove ES this spell has done nothing for the spec. Keep FR and make cool capstones for it. Like if FR hits one target spenders deal x% damage as a dot. If fr hits 3 or more it instantly applies highlord judgement.
To remove some upfront damage from non spenders or balance it out they could nerf boj and bake expurgation (as a proper dot).
Or they could make it so non spenders always deal x% damage as dot.
Idk it feels like our time has passed for meaningful changes and we are stuck now
I dunno why you are so intent on nerfing csaa so much. They should buff ts to compete with it.
Also nerfing art of war? Why? Just remove the 2hp choice for boj and that would be fixed naturally.
I do think divine toll should be changed since we already have a talent turning judgement into a cleave. Make it do a boj AoE instead.
They should remove the DoT talent, no point of it existing in a spec that only has 2 DoTs…
There is no buff that will ever make ts competitive because, as it stands right now every global i spend on ts is a wasted global that vould have been a finisher with csaa because of the overflowing of hp from csaa and art of war
Nothing will bring it in line. And Im in pure pvp gear with meager 20% haste imagine if I had actual pve gear.
You would have to buff ts to outrageous levels of damage (higher than finisher) for it t be even considered and then I would just spam ts over finishers. Do you understand wht am I asking these things
Sounds like your speccing too much on hp generation to me. Csaa already has a loss in auto attack damage, and it’s naturally weaker then base cs damage wise.
Honestly apart of the challenge of making a ret spec is balancing your hp generation and damage. But that is my opinion. (If you have dusk and dawn’s capstone, then yeah it makes it worse.)
The reality is with csaa there are very few dead gcds because art of war and haste (both base and with crusade) keep you fully occupied. This is the problem, this is why ts will never be better because its 2gcds wasted. Also csaa vs ts should not become a dead node , it kinda already is so the way to do it is nerfing csaa to the ground and evem art of war
They should make taking csaa reduces attackspeed and also untie crusaders reprieve from cs and make it on all autoattacks regardless of cs csaa or ts (this is another big reason csaa is betgee than ts in pvp)
You just made no sense this time. Art of war is tied to auto attacks, so even if someone don’t take csaa, you still get art of war procs. This had nothing to do with csaa.
And again that can be fixed by removing the boj 2 hp talent and just leave the 2 charge there instead.
I could be wrong here but I think she means that since Art of War is procced by CSAA (an auto attack), and auto attacks are affected by Haste, then Art of War procs by default is affected by CSAA, thus very few dead gcds.