do you really see them buffing s2 set by hundreds of %?
because i dont, just from experience of … idk … 13+ years of them not balancing ret stuff correctly
(just look at the pvp part of the s3 set, its bugged or extremely undertuned since the beginning of the season)
you may have missed some of the previous messages, but agreed % will change its a matter of what gets the % or not for that bit of the convo
but its the same with s2 set?
if boj hits something outside it doesnt spread as far, happens
if boj doesnt spread rip all damage, if HoW AND judgement misses something rip damage on that target but also wtf…
You’re seeing it as hundreds of %.
When it’s actually:
2 PC - 10% Judge and HoW dmg and 20% Judge and HoW crit dmg to >>> +20% dmg and +40% critical dmg
4 PC - 15% finisher dmg + HoW cleave for 20% to >>> +30% finisher dmg + HoW cleave for +50%
Just a random example, you see it as increase of X200%, X300%… but it’s easily a +20%, +30% addition etc
20% to 40% is a 100% increase, 20% to 50% is a 150% increase
for the s3 bonus to work it doesnt need to spread, you just have to hit that one mob with judgment to activate the bonus
and cleaving judgment prefers enemies with expurgation (they programmed that in for s3 bonus)
Yes, but reading one of them is scaring the non-believers as the numbers appear too high.
When it’s actually a small number doubled, tripled, etc
yep all of this from both of you, again I’m good with either I like them both, I just like 2 better but I will be happy with 3 again aswell
even with those number (that got buffed by 100% and more) its just… worse than s3?
4 piece effect needs the hammer cap removed to be on par on big pulls
and still i dont see them buffing the set that much (i could be wrong obviously)
Those numbers seem fine to me… they are increasing Judge and HoW twice with dmg + crit dmg from 2 PC and then again duplicating HoW cleave to 70% is a lot of dmg for 5 targets.
We’ll see what kind of tuning they’ll do later, S3 will probably win, so we’ll see how they handle other classes sets.
I will take S1 over S3, primarily because s3 was nerfed by 50% in ptr then pvp players only got 8% of the new live server tool tip damage. Again, yes, Ive heard pve players liked S3 tier, thats great, but it was nerfed more than advertized in pvp making it garbage for us.
with enough buffs to the sets i dont care which one wins 
i am just used to them not caring at all about ret, thats why i dont trust them with the “every set will be equal” stuff
Well i don’t trust them to not nerf S3 set either, if they see that it’s so much of our dmg.
25% dmg to 20 extra dmg, 30% extra Expurgation dmg to 20% extra… anything is possible.
Also one thing that nobody mentioned, but we are all practically voting for our “favorites”, why is that?
It’s simple, they’re gonna take our “favorite” sets and implement them as Hero talents, i’m 90% sure they will.
thats fine, give me double and triple divine storms as talents 
hammers splitting should just be added into blessed champion
and blessed champion should be 1 talent point… just look at caustic spatter ._.
1st point should be baseline so we have cleave potential to 2 additional targets
What? S3 has the least cap of them all and in AOE it’s no contest. Spamming HoW is dogwater especially when you HAVE to use it on AOE.
Please you’re one of the posters I like, don’t say things like this and get copium spread around like a virus, we have never gotten a buff that has been enough. We have a proven track record of underwhelming if any tuning and heavy handed nerfs, it’s not going to simply change in 1 patch.
do you not like 3% extra ability damage while mage gets multiple targeted buffs to certain abilities?
while we are at the bottom and they are soaring?
even mages made fun of the buffs
The patch tuning team is not the same as the live tuning one. The patch team is liberal with numbers, the live one is conservative.
But you’ll see that when they do tuning for the other specs/classes.
The patch tuning team nerfed our tier set by 50%, I don’t like them either. Ret might have actually cracked top 5 and actually been competitive with DH and BM in keys if not for those nerfs.