So i think its time for Ret pally to get a buff in either Mastery or an overal damage/aura buff the reason i am saying this is because we do not scale with the patches at all currently because of our stat priority being dependent on vers/crit. By 10.2 im worried our damage will be so bad it wont be viable to play in majority of the content wich isnt fun sadly. Making mastery useful again would probably be the better overal buff because itll help us scale wich we currently do not. An overal damage/aura buff would be nice to but sadly i think it will not last and only get us so far in the long run because of the scaling issue with vers/crit. The rework has been so awesome for ret and i think majority loves how it currently plays but sadly it wont last if our damage is worthless as its already headed in that direction looking at warcraft logs. Blizzard has done a great job listening to the community this expansion and i hope they see this as well.
Praying to the gods that Ret wonât become a new Windwalker - extremely fun to play, but everyone know they suck a bit into an expansion, because gear just means almost nothing.
WoW is an RPG. One of the best joys in the game is feeling your character geting stronger with gear, you just donât get that with new iteration of Paladin.
Heh? Really? Where⌠I havenât seen it. The quality and player opinion has continued to drop since the release of Dragonflight from what Iâve seen. It started off super strong and has fallen off since 10.1.
Edit: Also donât hold your breath for a Ret buff. Its not coming this expansion. We are where weâre going to stay.
i begg you to be aware that rets best state is haste right now and it loves all stats evenly. to the point where sims will want you to grab a bit of mastery if you have a low amount of it. yall gotta stop thinking verse is this huge boogieman when it was barely ahead of other stats when you ran ts.
you clearly havent been paying attention, every spec buff so far is due to community feedback.
Please enlighten me to what âbuffsâ have been done per community feedback. If you mean reworks, sure reworks are amazing but they donât mean much when the class fails to be competitive because besides mage every class thatâs gotten a rework has since been nerfed into the ground.
This is inaccurate as all stats are equally as bad for ret. If you look at class scaling most classes (Not all) scale better with a secondary than we do with Str let alone our secondaries. Haste is not the best stat⌠Ret requires a balance. I run 23% vers 23% crit and 30% haste. Per sims I should be dropping my haste to raise vers but its a minimal change not worth the cost to change.
mage rework was solely tailored to community feedback the most obvious being the removal of rune of power and icy veins being made a proper cd
havoc gaining essence break as the burst cd they wanted and st buffs, serrated glaive buff to not be useless, first blood buffs
ret gain multiple bug fixes, seraphim removed, more streamlined rotation, consistent damage outside its burst window
brew gained multiple buffs to lower its dependency of outside external power
same with bdk
boomie gained more talent flexability, the removal of stellar flame
feral gained mroe priority target buffs
shadow priest gained a rework and for once its a actually fully made spec that was tailored to the priest community
bear gained alot of talent flexability basedo n co,mmunity feedback and thus its meta
hpal gained more buttons and engaging rotation, not to mention made multiple dead talents into strong talents based on community feedback
eggnog ring and annulet nerf which people has been asking for since its inception
the list is literally endless, you just have to legit get out of your own bubble and realize that your own personal feedback doesnt equal that to the overal community and stop spreading lies saying nothing is being done by the community when its apparent that tuning is being done based on feedback.
read literally read
keep in mind all sims are based on tlaent builds and other factors, for example despite my haste being 25% verse being 14% crit 26%, my sims want me to gem and enchant mastery while prioritizing haste. this becomes more apparently with csaa by the looks of it your sims probably want verse because your still running templar strikes. despite csaa at this point in the season has clearly surpassed it by a unignorable margin not to mention it makes you completely detached from windfury which is extremely good
if you run templar strike or regular crusaders strike then your sims will stil lwant verse. it also depends on all sorts of factors but i suggest to sim for csaa and youâll see a huge shift in stat distribution
You do realize stat priority is not all there is to scaling right?
For all three warlock specs, vers is their lowest dps secondary - yet it gives them more damage per point than we, Retâs, get with our best stat - strength.
You seem to be hyperfocused on priority part of the 4 stats, when an equal important part is how much power you gain in them compared to other specs, in which we suck. Just like WW.
EssB was DF release not a recent change, Serrated glaive is still useless and all the ST buffs barely brought havoc to the bottom of the completive range. Fell short of what they should have done for the class.
10.7 fix, DF to 10.1 was great, DF post 10.1 has been garbo. They also failed to design ret in a way that would allow for the class to continue to preform well, and nerfed it pretty hard shortly after the rework because of its ability in arena hurting PVE where it was not needed.
Both still terrible damage outside of M+ and massive cleave/aoe.
From what Iâve heard from the shadow priest I raid and M+ with the changes did nothing but change the priority from 1 button to another and made cleave/aoe brain dead.
Eranogâs ring is still BIS for Ret so not really.
Iâd hold up a mirror but Iâve seen your other posts in the community and know youâd ignore it.
You stated âIt loves all stats evenlyâ that is inaccurate as none of them actually make a meaningful impact when compared to how stats impact other classes. There for it is inaccurate because it is impartial to stats at best.
Guess I havenât been paying close attention recently to the spec. I log on twice a week. Once to raid for an hour and a half and once to push M+ with a max of 8 dungeons for vault, thatâs it. Will try out CSAA tomorrow for M+.
it was a change tailored by the havoc community for the havoc community stop moving the goal post. serrated glaive is used in all top logs and parses rn on farm again stop being obtuse because you cant accept things
it was a 3% nerf, holy moly yall cant consider a 3% nerf that was all but reverted already as a âhard nerfâ before you say ES change was a nerf, keep in mind that it isnt, its infact a buff for people who dont mess up the es window
im sorry i guess you liked sacerficing 15% damage to grab solar beam or hard casting stellar flare
youve heard wrong then
its not because it can be swaped out with a 447 ring depending on yoru ilvl. its not bis anymore
you failed to understand, continued to nbot read, and cherry picked every thing to assist your arguement because theres no hard facts or evidence to support your claims. yes ret needs a st buff, but actively lying and misinforming others isnt going to get ret those buffs
again stop moving the goal post because you failed
My comment that you responded to was directed at a note that theyâve done well during the expansion listening to feedback⌠that was prior to the release of the expansion so outside what I was commenting on.
Just because its the best choice doesnât mean its good.
It was actually closer to 6% overall which is exactly the buff we need right now.
Again youâre arguing that because its QoL is a little better the fact that it doesnât perform well should be ignored, that is such a bad stance to have.
I have multiple 447 rings, none sim higher than EranogâŚso you can argue based on your opinion Iâm going off fact.
I am directly responding to your claims with facts that youâre disputing with weak generic info that doesnât contradict anything Iâm saying.
Iâm not moving a goal post or failing at anything. I do enjoy that you try to be a massive troll though, it helps pass a slow day in the office.
I wouldnât call destruction over tuned and it still scales a lot better than Ret.
please i beg you to give me the math thatr makes a 3% aura nerf equal to a 6% overal nerf? how in the world did you multiply a 3% aura nerf that doesnt effect autos or trinkets by two to make it a 6% overal dps loss. if anything if im being exact its a 2.6% aura nerf BECAUSE IT DOESNT EFFECT AUTOS OR TRINKETS. link something please to back up this sudden yet outlandish claim
do you know how much is 15% less damage to grab mandatory utility is? probably not since you think a 3% aura is equal to a 6% nerf some how
what opinion? the opinion that NON of these top parse rets are using eggnog ring??? warcraftlogs com/zone/rankings/33#class=Paladin&spec=Retribution if it still sims better for you then ya sure its good for you still, but that hardly makes it bis for the entire spec. not even the sim apl uses eggnog ring anymore. please just taking your own misinformed opinion as fact
it put the same amount of effort you do when claiming things. the difference is when people look up my arguements they find its backed up by theorycrafters, sims, irl performance and logs
You can edit are forego the conversation all you want, youâre not correct.
Ret is sitting in the mid or slightly below it, and UHDK is sitting at the top.
UHDK didnât get a single nerf the whole patch. Ret didnât get a single buff the whole patch (other than the ES bugfix, and without it Ret was top 3 bottom).
That means Blizzard is fine with UHDK (a spec that has close to our defensive capabilities, strong utility and MUCH higher throughput) and with Ret current standings.
So the âbalancedâ range is much higher than what you think. So no, UHDK is not overtuned, else it wouldâve been nerfed.
over tuned spec is overtuned. we can put a mountain of info and data infront of you and youâd say something like âthose are before toxic boots got buffedâ or something along those lines. but to humor you
this is a lie ret has been buffed and the es bug fixed is also a buff along with the empy power and other bug fixes. while unholy has had negative bug fixes to its own loss, not to mention getting an entire trinket nerfed just for them
unholy is no where near as defensively monsterous as ret, nor has utility to speak off comparable to blessing of protection (which is huge this m+ season but you dont like using any utility so you wouldnt know that) freedom (again huge for m+ and raiding) spot lay on hands level of wogging (not a dps ability so why use it lmao) bubble cheesing, sac and saving specific targets or when assigned, ret aura (hpal will never run this and prot paladin is to behind other tanks to be considered) brez and again our own bulk can beconsidered a utility because we cant die at all so its a godsend in prog.
meanwhile what does unholy have? amz? useless if your not blood, slappy hands and grip? oh my i wonder what that cna be used for
you care about numbers but when push comes to shove you and plenty others qqing about unholy wouldnt be able to last a month with it and its problems. ret had a very simliar bursty profile that unholy has and majority of people here hated it
this is beyond laughable, next youâre gonna tell me that mages are perfect the way they are
Damn I mustâve been reading the wrong patch notes, because I believe the only thing that Ret got since 10.1 is:
A 2% compensation for Eranog + Annulet nerfs, which in the end turns up to be about neutral if not a below 1% buff, which is negligible.
A bugfix to ES that wasnât in any patch notes.
A bugfix to VM that ended up being a nerf (albeit a small one)
Empyrian power routine of bugs/fixes, but itâs not an used talent in ST or any AoE build currently, lmao.
Do you mind sharing me the other massive bugfixes and buffs that prompted up Ret this patch?
I never said that UHDK is at the level of Ret defensively wise, but lets start naming their defensives, shall we? Lets see if theyâre weak:
Death Strike (on demand heal, either from damage taken or a flat % HP)
AMS (30% HP shield for magic, prevents debuff applications, 1 min CD, 40s CD with a talent)
Sacrificial Pact: 25% HP heal, 2 min CD
Enfeeble: Proc from the Ghoul that reduces the target damage by 15%.
Icebound Fortitude: 30% DR at 2 min CD, gives immunity to stuns.
Blood Scent: 3% passive leech
Veteran of the Third War: 20% stamina
Suppression: 3% avoidance
Permafrost: Absorb shield equal to 40% of the damage of the AA of the UHDK
Death Pact: 50% HP heal on a 3 min CD
Lichborne: Increases leech by 10% and gives immunity to CCs. With a talent it gives 15% DR. 2 min CD
Blood draw: When you drop below 30% HP you heal from nearby enemies. 3 min CD
Will of the Necropolis: When below 30% HP all damage is reduced by 35%.
I am sure not all of them are taken at the same time, but damn, it doesnât look like the spec is squishy to me and I definitively wouldnât call this far off from Ret tankyness.
I can go ahead and do the same for utility, but I agree with you, Ret utility is higher than DKs. However, DKs utility is also strong.
Just grip itself is strong in a lot of situations, even if niche. AMZ is useful everywhere. Ret has a lot of stuff, but first off, all the offhealing while itâs there, I know it might sound revolutionary, but ITâS NOT YOUR JOB. If youâre using your holy power all the time to heal, youâre playing the spec wrong. Because repeat with me, Retribution is a DPS spec, not a healer spec and not a support spec.
Cleanse is nice, and Freedom is ok I wager, but theyâre situational and niche. Very necessary in some dungeons, completely forgettable in others. Flat out useless inside of raid.
Same with BoP. Sac is strong but only inside of M+ scenarios and very high keys. In raids, sac is not needed because healers are there to use their CDs. You using sac over them is just wasting it.
Ret Aura is a meme, btw. Itâs incredibly weak. It barely procs, and when it does, it does it on situations nobody has CDs and diminishes in power over its duration.
Iâm not even talking about the DPS profile at this point. It is a fact that UHDK does more boss damage than Ret Paladin in any kind of ST scenario and duration.
Also, sorry to break it to you and your null experience in actually doing endgame content, but what defines a DPS is, first of all, THEIR DAMAGE. If you donât do damage, youâre not meta. Easy as that.
And yes, that doesnât mean that having damage alone makes you meta, but it is definitively the most important part of a DPS.
If you canât understand this phrase, get read again and understand the context.
I obviously think UHDK is overtuned as hell, or Ret is weak, whatever you think. But Blizzard doesnât touch any, so they have to be balanced, right?