I’d still like to see a AOE generator come back. Not sure why we got stuck with a AOE ability that enemies can just move out of. Granted at the end of the day the overall damage is pretty good on it.
3 Likes
In PvP, ret generally has to use freedom and steed combined to attempt to close a gap. So 2 GCDs and spells that are over a 25s cd. It feels just awful to use, especially when another class just instantly teleports or leaps away and you can’t do anything now but waddle after them.
20 Likes
Seal of the Templar has to go.
It’s a trap mechanic that risks encouraging less educated players to use an aura with no benefits, to provide a slight range increase on a partial list of abilities.
The biggest issue is Ret’s reliance on auto-attacks for Art of War, with no real feedback players are likely to be unknowingly out of range for their auto-attacks, whilst also simply providing suboptimal damage.
Considering other classes also get the same effect baseline from a single talent, have it affecting all aspects, and also aren’t required to sacrifice either group utility or personal throughput to use I can’t see why Seal of the Templar even has such limitations.
14 Likes
I am a paladin Heal main! And the truth is that even the heal paladin has a serious problem with mana. Oh my God ! I only do one round of damage and I’ve already eaten 25% of the mana. All added to the fact that he has one of the worst defenses. In pvp for example everyone wants to kill a paladin…. too bad for that
7 Likes
It contributes to the button bloat. Consecration works great for prot pally and having it heal makes it feel good for holy pally, but feels out of place for retribution, and always has.
23 Likes
Well right away we’re at an impasse, because I don’t know how it can be that the developers might look at the preponderance of data available through public logs and continue to labor under the distorted notion that ANY talent build Retribution can put together deals “extreme” “burst” damage. Our cooldown “window” is upwards of 35 seconds long and we are tied with two other specs for worst single target damage.
I want to make something very clear right now. ALL OF OUR DEFENSIVE ABILITIES ARE ON GCD.
Can’t even get out of 20 yard wide oneshot swirlies when you only give us two seconds to move and horsie is on the GCD! 
Which brings us to the next point.
This basically says nothing because there is an unimaginable gulf between Ret’s current mobility and Rogues’. Outlaw’s in particular. To the tune that you could add a teleport on a 30s cooldown and +20% passive run speed and it wouldn’t get us halfway.
25 Likes
Lets go! Can’t wait to see what y’all come up with. PTR is downloading now
1 Like
what contributes to button bloat is a 3 holy power spending ability that doesnt actually do damage.
even though conc doesnt interact with builder/spender, it does nutty damage in aoe. its completely fine
2 Likes
And considering that none of the posts thus far had in anyway been lambasting the post was unnecessary.
11 Likes
Love to see Ret getting some love but JUST Ret? Hello?
HPal is in a dark place especially in PvP
5 Likes
It’s almost like you don’t know what button bloat means.
They could easily load that damage into Divine Storm instead. Or Wake of Ashes. ’
An ability not interacting with pretty much anything else in our toolkit feels bad. Period. I switched my main plate wearer from Pally to Warrior this expansion pretty much entirely because of the emphasis they put on Consecration and how bloated the spec is, in part due to it.
16 Likes
Was I talking about this one thread? And no, I wasn’t. I am specifically accumulating all the feedback dating back from pre dragonflight launch and post dragonflight launch and now.
or they could leave it alone because its not currently an issue. consecrate is a major ability paladins has always had. as i stated above the only changes it could benefit from is either following us or potentially having a proc making it generate holy power.
exorcism has the same issue. its another button to press for no real reason. exorcism should be a talent making it replace blade of justice but functioning the same way it did in wod.
7 Likes
Remove holy power.
No ret paladin worth their soul likes it. The class has had quite literally insufferable design since Cata.
Everyone loves WotLK ret, very few people would play ret even if it was amazing in retail, meanwhile in Wrath I bet ret is one of the most popular specs despite it being pure dog water until ICC.
Removing HP & making it similar to WotLK will fix button bloat. You can replace stacking modifiers with something similar of how Crusader Strike functions with the PvP librams in Wrath, where you are rewarded for hitting Crusader Strike within a certain window to keep an AP buff.
Survivability: Art of War & Instant Flash of Light - & the only function of Art of War is to use for healing yourself. Just make Shield of Vengeance better in some form
Movement: Long Arm of the Law. Doesn’t need to be 50% movement or whatever it used to be, but Horse is absolutely awful.
Also bring back Divine Storm visual from Wrath it was the best.
13 Likes
I’ve played Retribution since October of 2006. I’ve seen it’s up and it’s downs over 16 years.
Honestly, you hit it on the head with the redoing the talents: Forced the options of having the utility toolkit over damage. Bringing back the ability to have BOP -and- Cleanse without giving up damage will be great. We already lose a GCD when we have to press them.
Exorcism coming back is great, it’s interesting, but it should genuinely generate a holy power. It’s a 20 second cooldown. It can have limitations such as: Intrinsic AOE dot when X+ targets are in consecration, and generating 1 HP when sub X targets. It hits hard, but it feels so bad to press. Another option is to have a chance for it to reset it’s CD like it used to in the past. It’s been a while, but this used to exist.
Divine Steed feels awful after having the empowered conduit to extend it’s duration, in addition to 2 charges, which was fantastic. Consider changing the talent “Seasoned Warhorse” to increase by 1 second, and also make it so that you are immune to slow/pushback/root while active. This would make it worth taking over other talents in certain situations both in PVE and PVP. Or, some combination: No time extension but the slow/snare/pushback.
Please fix the bug, which has existed this entire time, where when you use Divine Toll (from the talent tree) where it will only hit 1 judgment on your primary target, and not any other targets around you. It feels so bad to lose out on the multi hit.
Judgments of the Pure being a talent, and not a PVP talent, also creates interesting but impactful (and non-game breaking) game play. In PVP, there are many situations where taking this is more harmful than not, but enabling this as a PVE/PVP talent (in the tree) allows for more utility in PVE.
Also, as everyone else said:
Please revisit the beta forums. You ignored a lot of the best options and ideas there, blatantly. A part of that was due to the people working the class design, because if it was not intentional then it was a lack of care for feedback.
22 Likes
The class tree needs a revamp. It’s probably one of the worst class trees in the game with noob traps and talent dependency issues. Not to mention it is incredibly dull.
Now is your chance to get rid of 3 talents for divine steed. Bring back kings/wisdom/might in the class tree.
24 Likes
Hope you guys get a better “revamp” than Guardian Druids did. 
11 Likes
I would REALLY love a talent like storm of swords in Fury warrior that removes holy power and makes ret more like wrath ret with CD based gameplay but with a modern flair to it. Also please make consecrate an aura like immolation aura on DH and make divine steed into long arm of the law or pursuit of justice or at least give a choice node.
Ret doesnt need a gap closer but it does need to feel as if the light speeds its steps.
14 Likes
rat got a rework ? In bfa ? How ? I mean if anything I always kind of felt worse after legion legion was more of a reworked than BFA was in my opinion.
Blizzard please, just give me Long Arm of the Law and Burden of Guilt and I’ll never ask for anything else ever again.
12 Likes