Retribution Paladin Design in 10.0.7

This is precisely the type of feedback and communication Ive hoped to see for what feels like an eternity.

Good job and thank you Kaviax & the Dev team.

Looking forward to more.


How many of you still don’t get the two words “button bloat”? Which means they are removing a lot of the active abilities and replacing them with passives and less abilities.


im skeptical. some of the changes listed can only be good, but if in their quest to remove button bloat they make an oopsie and remove the wrong spell, i just lose all interest in ret.


Need ret to give me might again!


Okay, I’ll buy in. You said the things. Don’t let us down.


Regardless of the end result, it’s good to get an acknowledgement of the problems with the spec. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.


Great news! Keep up the good work Blizz. With the exception of the bugs, this is the best xpac since MoP so far.

One question, since ENH shaman and Shaman in general are balanced against Ret Paladin/Paladin respectively, when will we a rework to ENH? Currently ENH is either OP for two weeks then nerfed and unplayable. The same issues that Ret has, ENH has as well.


You people should be happy that they have acknowledge the problems that the class have currently. But nope, no matter what they do the super loud voices will still complain and say things like “my feedback isn’t listened and so by default you don’t listen to feedback” which I would say feedback isn’t factual it’s based on suggestions.


rets been in dire straits since the legion rework. wod was pinnacle ret design


Why are you even here, except to poop in everyone’s cereal?

Look below, they are asking for suggestions and feedback. If you have nothing constructive to post then why bother at all.


Yea… there’s a lot still. :frowning:

1. Will there be a class tree revamp?

  • The class tree has felt very underwhelming and there’s a lot of spec tree talents that feel as if they should be in the class tree.
    - Consecrated Ground
    - Sanctified Ground
    - Healing Hands / Light of the Protector
    - Light of the Titans
    - Echoing Blessing
    - Etc…

2. Will Auras, Seals and Blessing become more core Paladin abilities?

  • Half the Auras Paladins run (including PvP “Auras”) feel extremely selfish in use, while Devo feels mandatory as the only paladin in the group/raid.
  • Seal of “This/That” has flooded the Paladin tree and Ret tree as mainly passive buffs, Seals were iconic to the Paladin Class and it felt really disconnected to ruin such a thing, will talents be renamed and a better system be put in place that shows a bit more connection?
  • Blessings of Season feels awful to play with and is subjected to Holy only…

3. Will Paladins be given a more unique playstyle that separates them from "the rest?"

  • When you create a character in WoW, it highlights a very unique aspect you can expect from the class. From casting totems and elementals, to summoning demons, and raising the dead… what is “unique” about the Paladin class?

4. What is separating Paladins from Combat Rogues? – It feels more like a Holy Rogue than a Holy Warrior…

  • Currently, a lot of the Paladin toolkit feels like it was copy-pasta from the Rogue Class.
    • Blind → Blinding Light
    • Combo Points → Holy Power
    • Kidney → HoJ
    • Sprint → Steed
    • Etc…
      How can you make abilities like Pursuit of Justice or Turalyon’s Leap not feel like Hit and Run or Grappling Hook?

5. Will Ret abilities be updated to the modern game?

  • This is obviously a challenging subject, but now that all healers can dispel magic effects, Hammer of Justice and Hand of Hindrance have felt very isolated in their roles, as being some of the only magical stuns/snares that are in the game-- removalable by all healers. Is it time to change Paladins or other classes? =/

6. Will you be taking more inspiration from other Blizzard titles, such as HotS, OW, or Diablo?

  • Where Paladins have been a bit more interesting and fun to play. : D

JV is a great example. Having a spell simply be a replica of another spell, but better, and also healing but with the cost of simply not having the same interactions as TV is honestly terrible, and for the greater population confusing.

What does it interact with? How many interactions with TV do I need before it becomes the better choice again? Etc.

It really should just be a modifier to TV if it is to be kept, as a flat sustain option vs on demand mitigation from Eye for an Eye.


There’s a difference between constructive feedback versus that of lambasting the game developers and accusing them like they aren’t listening and stuff. When in the end they are listening to those who does give constructive feedback and not spout accusatory comments.



On mobility, I don’t think we need rogue or monk or warrior mobility. But mobility is fun!!! It’s ok for it to be weaker but you can still make it fun!! Let us have a leap!



Making more things baseline in the class tree would be a nice start.

Divine Steed and all of it’s talents that enhance it should be baseline to all Paladins. Replace talents with Improved Freedom(2 charges) or something.

If we insists on keeping Retribution Aura it should be made baseline passive so Rets can bring Devo aura.

Remove Seal of Reprisal or make it one point.

Crusade two charges baseline.

Divine Toll 3 Holy Power when hitting one target.


This and the hard push to consecration was what pushed me away from Retribution and my Paladin in general in DF. I look forward to seeing the rework. Hopefully you can put less emphasis on Consecration or at least give us an avenue to talent away from it that’s viable.


So they mentioned what most ret mains have been saying since 9.2 SL df beta and now. I mean if that doesnt show that they straihht up ignored the spec during development…


When its leftover borrowed power, or arbitrary cooldowns im ok with them pruning.

When its traditional kit thats been around forever. I dont like pruning.

What fits into the category of acceptance is rationally or irrationally decided upon seeing what was removed.

Tl;Dr it depends and im sure everyone has differing values on what buttons are important to them & why.

conc is fine though. only change i think it could benefit from is maybe following the player or a proc or something to make it generate hp.

even still, other specs work fine with their ground based aoes and dont complain about it.

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Why not just eliminate all the useless abilities and replace them with more passive since button bloat is a serious issue in this game.