Bring back Long Arm of the Law, add a Divine Leap ability. Make Ret Aura have a party buff such as 5% haste buff for party or something similar. Outside of wings burst we have very little sustained damage outside of RNG procs. Remove seraphim as a spender ability. Increase damage of our builder abilities or rework them all together. Rework WoG so it doesn’t require holy power for us or add another way for us to heal ourselves without sacrificing DPS. Shorten DS and SoV cooldowns or make SoV absorb more damage. Make consecration follow us or rework it. It’s almost useless in M+ when tanks are moving a lot. Wouldn’t mind getting rid of Blessing of Dusk and Dawn, gets annoying to keep track of it and feels unnecessary in the rotation.
15 Likes
No, matter what they do one aisle will complain and then the other aisle will complain and then another group will complain. So, if I were them I would gather all the useful feedback and create a neutral choice and conclude the day rather or not it will please people or not.
Just a thought while reading everyone’s responses.
Consecration feels especially bad to press in PvP and no amount of damage will fix that. However its a really cool thematic paladin spell that I would like to use some times.
What if we take the sanctification talent that gives you a chance to gain holy power when consecration does damage and buff it through the roof. If you enter this sacred ground prepare to be slapped by multiple back to back final verdicts.
Realistically I know this would cause a lot of problems elsewhere but I just want to be able to plant my feet in the ground and tell those who would do evil that they best turn the other way or face the consequences!
6 Likes
Thank you guys very much for this communication. I can’t really overstate how much it means to me.
I’m a ret lifer, I am just a name in a a sea of players but I truly play my heart out and look to improve as much as I can. That being said, I’ve been so saddened by the lack of build flexibility, mobility, survivability, and having vital spells on the GCD. It just felt like we were being measured by a different standard. I know lots of people love this game and pour huge amounts of effort into it, I’m not special in that regard, but there are those of us who have invested so heavily in this spec no matter what people say about it. I am one of those people. This news today is, I hope, a landmark moment for the spec.
I look forward to seeing what you have in store for us, and I remain cautiously optimistic. You can count on me putting a ridiculous amount of time into testing every change you put forth. I look forward to a healthier ret.
11 Likes
Edit - TO post on pally main*
You didn’t accumulate anything.
Where is your accumulated feedback that you gathered from all the threads?
What? You don’t have anything?
All you did was bring negativity for no purpose, in a fresh thread that had no need for it.
Yes people have been upset, that’s the reasonable response with DFs development for Ret.
Why try and dig up old dirt? Seems petty when it wasn’t relevant to the thread.
9 Likes
May you Ret’s get better treatment than the bears did…
11 Likes
Cautiously optimistic.
Here’s my grievances; hopefully they address them:
4 Likes
They cannot remake the spec tree alone because tje issues are also present in class tree.
Idk I hope they dont just change the ret side of the tree. No oaladin should have to spend points im core abilities like blessings, auras, loh, avenging wrath
6 Likes
I’m very excited to see these changes!
For the mobility part, I never had insane expectations. Something like making steed off gcd/remove slows and snares (but not grant immunity) and making unbound freedom a regular talent is more than enough imo.
2 Likes
Good to see this at the top of the list. Having a 1-minute burst window outside of Avenging Wrath/Crusade is fantastic, but the sheer amount of buttons you currently need to press during the “ramp-up” is just excessive. Exorcism also still feels underwhelming, with its utility being shared by Wake of Ashes/Radiant Decree.
I personally don’t hate the current state of the holy power generators, they just deal way too little damage, with finishers being the brunt of Retribution’s damage, which also brings attention to the next point.
This is only natural, after years of nerfs to Retribution’s self-healing for the sake of PvP content (which, by the way, CAN just be TUNED SEPARATELY), we have reached the point where we can only rely on the forbearance abilities to save our lives, as spamming Flash of Light is laughable, and choosing not to spend holy power on a finisher just so we can use Word of Glory for negligible healing is always the wrong decision. Warriors and Death Knights’ self healing abilities feel infinitely better by comparison, and with little consequence to their damage throughput.
I’ve never been a fan of the Divine Steed, but since we’re talking Retribution specifically, I really don’t know what to expect. Blessing of Freedom with a speed boost? I certainly wouldn’t complain.
This feels like it should be priority #2, with the whole selling point of the Class talent tree being to allow hybridization, without taking away from the Specialization. The paladin class tree also needs some more love.
11 Likes
My hopium increased substantially!
7 Likes
brothers and sisters OUR FAITH HAS BEEN REWARDED, PRAISE BE THE EMPEROR!
4 Likes
Thank you, as someone who has played Paladin for most of my time playing WoW hearing a response addressing what has been identified as issues, why and how you want to deal with it is great and allows for a dialogue that was sorely missed during the development period of Dragonflight.
This is very huge as playing Ret Paladin can sometimes feel like you’re playing a musical instrument for the right reasons and sometimes feel like you are playing for the wrong reasons. Unfortunately some of those notes are out of tune, require impossible finger movement or are largely unpleasant to the player of the instrument.
When talking about button bloat what I identify as bloat to me are abilities that I largely see as wastes of my talent points to spec into and abilities that are just aren’t fun to use. Justicar’s Vengeance comes to mind as one of those abilities that I just see as a waste of space. Crusader Aura not being constantly active just isn’t fun either as 20% movement speed is huge for the class but just requires more keybinds to operate efficiently with Divine Steed and likely results in casuals ignoring the less obvious aura benefits because they want to go fast rather than reducing damage or outputting more through Devotion and Retribution Aura. Consecration also needs another look at as while its useful its not much fun to press untalented and could interact with abilities like Divine Storm or Final Reckoning to become more interesting and less like clutter on my bars.
Thank you for addressing this. Being able to hit half of a caster’s health with a single Templar’s Verdict while fun isn’t healthy for the game. Burst damage has it’s place in Ret Paladin design but it has become too important to the class’s performance and I’m glad its being looked at and hopefully changed.
I know I’ve said it before but thank you again for addressing this issue. Personally I feel like the class devs during BFA and SL were unable to make huge changes post launch because of the borrowed power systems not being as nimble as class trees can be and because of the high death rates we became very bursty because we needed to remain as useful as possible while not being able to heal or negate damage the same way Monks or Druids can. I look forward to seeing what solutions have been proposed by the team and hope that the mobility improvements also feed into alleviating this issue.
100% Ret Paladins shouldn’t move around like a rogue but I don’t think its that big of a secret that Ret has been memed on in the community as a “wheelchair class”. I don’t agree with the negative connotations associated with calling Ret Paladins that but it nonetheless highlights that Paladins have serious mobility issues that Divine Steed alone cannot help. Personally I’d consider making Unbound Freedom’s effect baseline and consider looking to Warlords of Draenor for inspiration and considering a similar version of Long Arm of the Law or Pursuit of Justice as potential passives that interact well with the Holy Power system or the Paladin’s abilities. Paladins thematically are represented as unstoppable forces of justice that are as swift as the light while in reality we are considerably much slower our plate wearing brothers. I don’t think anyone is realistically expecting Rogue levels of movement but simply to be put on par with Warriors and Death Knights while not being completely helpless against DHs and Evokers.
I really hope this line of thinking gives us back our Blessing of Might and Wisdom and perhaps in an expansion allows for the consideration of Wrath style seals as its my favorite part of WotLK’s Paladin
7 Likes
Is not like there is another class that need " Survivability"
1 Like
button bloat, huh?
brewmasters would like a word with you.
5 Likes
Bad take as for almost a decade they havent listened to Ret paladins at all an have been WOEFULLY ignored. So yes being unimpressed because we got some shotty blue post that only says : ya we hear u got these problems an will address them. WELL GREAT FOR US nearly 4 expacs later.
8 Likes
rogues?
rogues don’t feel super mobile.
insert mages and warriors in that sentence and it would be correct
1 Like
lol I thought a player was trolling and did a n early April fool’s post
I’m happy to hear that Ret will be looked at, hopefully the consecration build won’t disappear, I understand a lot of rets don’t like it but I think its pretty unique and I enjoy it.
I urge you to please look at the Paladin Class talent tree. It could use a lot of love and it affects all paladins.
5 Likes