Idk if it will or not… but it’s very meme-worthy just that they thought about giving mages an MS. ahaha
3 Likes
I mean, I understand it. Mages are struggling lmao.
7 Likes
Then the horror sets in when you realize there’s actually people who believe that lmao.
4 Likes
There needs to be a round table with the devs and top ret players in raid, mythic+ , and PvP. There is such a disconnect that it’s incredulous. The community hates Divine Steed, Justicar’s Vengance has been broken for a long time, and for the upper end players ret has nothing to bring to a raid that Holy or Protection can’t do better. Healing is NOT utility, it’s another form of throughput.
If we’re being budgeted around Divine Shield, Lay on Hands, and BoP, that is ridiculous in that their cds only realy allow them to be used once a fight, if that, and I really can’t even think of another class that has that have that many multiple long cds. Heck some of them can even just reset their cds at least once.
The anger in the community towards the devs is justified and I find it harder and harder to be a voice of reason. Particularly when their has been well thought out and well articulated post, after post, after post, and video after video outlining the same sentiments. Sure we disagree on the fix, that’s going to happen when people have played the various iterations of Retribution Paladins over the years and fallen in love with one build over another. What is unacceptable is that they CONTINUE to ignore the feedback.
Putting LAotL in the trees just to REMOVE it was as childish an act as I’ve seen in a long time. It’s like holding out a piece of candy to a child and snatching it away.
I hope that one of our alpha testers would please put in a request for a round table in regards to retribution in the Paladin feedback thread. Maybe if everyone who views this forum hits the like button we can hopefully get a ball rolling.
Edited to expand my opinion and place all my thoughts as I was using my phone at work earlier.
24 Likes
I feel exactly the same. As much as I want to find potential avenues and positive paths forward, it’s hard to do when we get kneecapped out of nowhere with such a note.
11 Likes
Good thinking
2 Likes
The truth is, respectively, that right now I don’t think there is a single ret paladin that knows what they are supposed to be at this point. Our identity has been muddled over several expansions and the only way to fix that is to be open and transparent about what exactly the identity or role of this specialization is suppose to be. If we are immobile we need to be top tier damage wise, if we aren’t top tier damage wise then we need to be able to move to compensate for that. You can’t have the player sit as neither mobile or high damage because that is just not fun or engaging to play and you can’t have them be both because then it is just overwhelming and just not fun for others to play with.
So the question needs to be posed here and it really needs to be answered. What is retribution suppose to be? I mean we have a message from a dev talking about how we are suppose to be about removing anti-mobility tools from our person to keep up with others, but we really don’t have the utility tool kit for that to be a thing. In fact our “utility” is heavily too situational and too tied into lack luster off-healing if we are being honest.
So at least we know we are immobile, at least by his concept of what we are, so we should have a high damage profile to compensate. Which brings up another question as to if we are suppose to be high damage then why do we have so many talents tied to a stationary ability? You would think with our lack of mobility and the way that the designer envisions us in his head that we would have more immediate damage options. Perhaps buffing builders to make them hit for more? Giving us abilities that grant us immediate holy power so we can hit spenders when we finally engage?
We could spend hours debating it over and over again, but in my opinion, Ret doesn’t just feel slow mobility wise, but also damage wise.
11 Likes
It just really bothers me how bad divine steed is compared to other specs movement abilities and the idea that this is somehow a fun design. Other characters have a drastic efficiency advantage over paladins when doing non-Dragon Isles content, whether that’s Chromie Time quests, clearing old raids for transmog, pet battling, etc. Given that every class/spec had access to a shared powerful movement ability in Shadowlands–like soulshape and door of shadows–I don’t see why giving every class the tools to move around quickly is a problem. It also sucks that ret is losing access to light’s barding and echoing blessings in dragonflight so overall it’s going to feel a lot slower in doing content that matters (mount runs through SoO since there is no skip).
7 Likes
I don’t think there’s any debate on that. Paladins should get blessings back to cover the three external buffs, heck even add a bit of flavor like 1% health or mana regen on top. Or give a talent where we can make judgement give the physical or magic damage debuff.
Still feels like we’re paying the hybrid tax when no one else is.
9 Likes
We have been paying the hybrid tax always, even tho everyone does party healing/support better than us and have betetr support abiltiies, but we still payt he price without the actual hybrid pay off.
14 Likes
That said, our goal for Retribution Paladin is to keep their strengths in removing things that hinder their mobility
So I as I said, I was really taken aback by this statement. I don’t personally think that it is remotely true as of now.
That being said, I went back to check ALL the tools available to paladins* to see how this vision can be brought to actual reality.
Here is what I came up to.
What would you guys give to Ret paladin in PVE to justify the dev note we received.
Talents in game as of now
Spreading the Word (Holy PVP specific talent)
Your allies affected by your Aura gain an effect after you cast Blessing of Protection or Blessing of Freedom.Blessing of Protection
Physical damage reduced by 30% for 6 sec.Blessing of Freedom
Cleared of all movement impairing effects.
Hallowed Ground (Holy and Prot specific PVP talent)
Your Consecration clears and suppresses all snare effects on allies within its area of effect.
Steed of Glory. (Prot specific PVP talent)
Your Divine Steed lasts for an additional 2 sec.
While active you become immune to movement impairing effects, and you knock back enemies that you move through.
Unbound Freedom (Prot and Ret specific PVP talent)
Blessing of Freedom increases movement speed by 30%, and you gain Blessing of Freedom when cast on a friendly target.
Unbound Freedom also causes any Blessing of Freedom applied to yourself to be undispellable.
Blessing of Sanctuary
Instantly removes all stun, silence, fear and horror effects from the friendly target and reduces the duration of future such effects by 60% for 5 sec.
Vengeance Aura
When a full loss of control effect is applied to you or an ally within your Aura, gain 6% critical strike chance for 8 sec. Max 2 stacks.
Tell me your thoughts
That said, our goal for Retribution Paladin is to keep their strengths in removing things that hinder their mobility
- Spends 1 GCD on BoF
Gets purged
or to charge into battle on their Divine Steed
- Spends 1 GCD on Divine PoopnySteed
Gets hit by a spammable, non-CD ranged snare and/or a passive AoE non-CD snare.
15 Likes
I really don’t understand this rose colored glasses take on WoD. I didn’t play MoP but WoD had terrible issues (one of the worst, clunkiest rotations I’ve ever experienced playing a Paladin was the seals buff rotation build).
1 Like
I don’t get it either. Aside from the joys of having a huge and super-powerful Divine Storm there wasn’t much in WoD to like - it was the start of button trimming, especially for Paladins, and compared to MoP they weren’t great until propped up by the Hellfire tier bonus.
To be fair WoD was also nerfed Elemental pretty hard, and as that’s my favourite caster I had two reasons to dislike class design.
2 Likes
When I talk about things, it’s from a pvp standpoint. Final verdict felt so good in WOD in pvp, idk. Emancipate also felt great and I didn’t really play emp seals much as I wasn’t big on that.
1 Like
Emp Seals was not clunky to me after I mastered it. Played silky smooth and really fast.
1 Like
When it comes to BoP, it’s a 5 min cooldown and is hardly worth the jusification. It’s decent in BGs where a lot of allies can benefit, but in reality it has little value.
When it comes to BoF, BoF usually already served it’s purpose of clearing movement speed suppressions, so it’s a little redundant. Hallowed Ground is just better at what this does but again, requires us to be in melee already.
This is actually a really good talent, but we can’t afford to take it. This is what Sanctified Ground should be in the Ret Tree if we aren’t getting anything else.
The increased duration and the immune to movement impairing effects is how Divine Steed should be if its going to be a talent.
Divine Steed - Talent 0/1
2 Chargers - 45 second recharge - 5 sec duration
Steed of Glory - Talent 0/1
Your Divine Steed lasts for an additional 2 sec and while active you become immune to movement impairing effects
The knock up effect is cool, but honestly its quite obnoxious in PvP. Healers don’t need to be stunned, interrupted and knock backed.
Great Talent, should be in the Class Tree.
This is fine as a Ret only PvP Talent, but should be castable while stunned and feared, like Beserker Rage and Lichborne are.
This is another prime example of Blizzard not knowing (or caring) for what an Aura truly is.
Druids have better AURAS than paladins, its quite embarrassing honestly.
However, I’d like to note that mobility and Z-axis movement is still largely better, and as pointed out kindly by Blizzard, more fun. We have most of these things now and are still pretty meh. (Carried by warrior in PvP)
Final Reckoning should be upgraded to Falling Sword.
PoJ should be added to the class tree.
Glyph for Divine Steed to make it Speed of Light should be added.
10 Likes
The day they delete ret is the day I uninstall. Hopefully with the MS takeover they’ll clean out the rest of the trash influenced by the former dev who was responsible for the lawsuit.
It’s clear the hatred towards paladins is still strong. Maybe we need to tweet the crap out of ms game division president.
I imagine the hatred goes back to table top dnd whete his evil character was killed by a paladin.
2 Likes
Uh no, Emp Seals was clunky by design.
You don’t make swapping a seal, an action that does no damage and is on the GCD, a “silky smooth” rotation.
Even worse, it takes TWO GCDs to maintain the buff, and you had to keep TWO buffs up minimum.
Meaning you are interrupting your already FULL cooldown rotation with not one, but FOUR GCDs every 20 seconds.
Emancipate was fantastic, the removal of it is possibly the worst decision in the game.
4 Likes
It was an acceptable bandaid, and should’ve been removed and then replaced by something more like Death’s Advance. Emancipate required spamming, so it burned through GCDs and mana, and was pretty brain-dead play. Of course, what we got was only the ‘removed’ part.
3 Likes