Rethinking Developer Disconnect from Community

[Eloraell-moon-guard]

You just use strawmans and nitpicking to try to attack people.

Says the “No True Scotsman” advocate…

You accept layering because blizzard said theyre doing layering.

No True Scotsman!

If blizzard came out and said they were doing dynamic respawns and not doing layering, you would defend that.

Slippery Slope!

You have no capability to think for yourself, period.

Ad hominem!

C’mon man. If you’re going to claim someone is using fallacies to argue, at least be a little more subtle about who the actual someone is. You’re literally using all the things you’re complaining about, to respond to my actual discussion of your idea.

[Abigaiil-tichondrius (Abigaiil)]

Ion’s thing was killing world/raid bosses in vanilla. Once you understand how he played the game, his concerns and lack thereof for others, make sense.

[Enshui-sisters-of-elune]

We’ve already seen how layering works through streams.

… Okay. And?

I’ve heard there’s been issues with it in the beta, but, TBH… It’s the best option I’ve heard. Hopefully all the bugs get worked out

Do you have a better option that does not end up with server merges and / or dead servers later? While layering has its flaws – as any system to deal with the expected population would – it’s the best of all the worst.

If anything, servers will be overfull socially rather than empty. Trade chat is going to have to come with complementary advil from the sheer amount of chatter.

[Xerrick-darkspear]

Raise the cap temporarily. Not to an absurd amount, but double the normal amount. Then increase respawns on problematic areas(not caves). It’s not a perfect “no changes” solution but it is closer than what we have now, in spirit.

[Bricklethumb-anvilmar]

Ion’s thing was killing world/raid bosses in vanilla. Once you understand how he played the game, his concerns and lack thereof for others, make sense.

Yep!! Because every single one of us is EXACTLY the same person we where 14 years ago.

Next?

[Zsasz-whisperwind (Zsasz)]

Estimated healthier populations, no server merges, server communities are a big wonky, but they’re still intact – most specifically, they’re still intact after the layers get collapsed. Because the understandable concern is that if there isn’t layering, we’re going to have dead servers after the tourists leave.

This exactly. People tend to focus on the “layering vs. login queues” aspect, but this is the real reason I’m perfectly fine with temporary layering.

If people are concerned about the harm layering does to the community aspect of the game, consider the harm server merges will do to the community. Or dead servers. Either of those options would be pretty terrible and devastating.

There will be tourists, no doubt about it. Many, many people will come check things out and not stick around for the long haul.

If people are concerned with having a strong sense of community, this is a solid way to deal with a temporary problem while still letting you retain that community. Those people will still be on the server after layering is removed. You’re not suddenly on a ghost town or having to deal with an influx of refugees from another server - or worse, having to move yourself, and dealing with losing your character/guild names, etc.

[Abigaiil-tichondrius (Abigaiil)]

To be fair - at least he played the game back in the day and knows layering is antithetical to vanilla.

[Eloraell-moon-guard]

Raise the cap temporarily. Not to an absurd amount, but double the normal amount. Then increase respawns on problematic areas(not caves). It’s not a perfect “no changes” solution but it is closer than what we have now, in spirit.

So… Private Server Model.

Higher pop caps, dynamic respawns and all the problems and inauthenticity that entails.

[Bricklethumb-anvilmar]

So… Private Server Model.

Higher pop caps, dynamic respawns and all the problems and inauthenticity that entails.

I had that loaded up and deleted it. . hehe. . Thanks

[Chopchopexe-bonechewer]

“You think you do, but you don’t”, then releases Classic a few years later. (Untrustworthy.)

I believe you don’t understand the irony of having the same person that said this be the one to swallow his pride and be the one to announce it? That looks like humility or admission of being wrong to me.

Don’t trap yourself in your bubble of enmity, try to look at things through an unfiltered and un-jaded lens.

[Xerrick-darkspear]

What problems exactly? Ive already explained how layering hurts server community. So where is your counter argument?

[Bricklethumb-anvilmar]

What problems exactly? Ive already explained how layering hurts server community. So where is your counter argument?

We have all laid out the counter-argument. . My gawd man. . just read, please.

[Eloraell-moon-guard]

@Xerrick-darkspear

Ive already explained how layering hurts server community. So where is your counter argument?

Please remove layering past start zones

I have. To you. Repeatedly. Primary reasons: Individuals can farm a given mob to generate more chances at a piece of loot. Resources respawn faster and can be farmed by individuals. Entering a cave means fighting your way in, AND fighting your way out. Respawns on top of someone drinking within the 30 second mark are far more painful. It comes down to the fact that layers exclude players from all the other copies (once exploits are fixed) such that they can’t farm given mobs faster.

The difference is that you’ve just come up with this concept, whereas I’ve shot it down month-in, month-out.

[Traydrenna-wyrmrest-accord]

Raise the cap temporarily. Not to an absurd amount, but double the normal amount. Then increase respawns on problematic areas(not caves). It’s not a perfect “no changes” solution but it is closer than what we have now, in spirit.

So… Private Server Model.

Higher pop caps, dynamic respawns and all the problems and inauthenticity that entails.

But they’ll talk out the other side of their mouth and say #NoChanges any time someone brings up balance fixes.

[Xerrick-darkspear]

I guess I just value server community more than you do. you prefer convenience of retail wow.

Edit: just call layering what it is, sharding.

[Torquemadan-emerald-dream]

But you are making the assumption that that person made the call and not someone above them saying "no, try this… " and saying go forth and see what the reaction is and if we can make $$ off it.

No one has come forth as of yet to say (I approved classic)

[Bricklethumb-anvilmar]

I guess I just value server community more than you do. you prefer convenience of retail wow.

ANyone get that on the bingo card?

I can’t speak for anyone else, but I VERY much value community. I just dont buy your fear story. . Provided we get the safeguards in place.

Thanks for the fun game though. .

[Eloraell-moon-guard]

I guess I just value server community more than you do.

No, your model values your own personal experience, over the long term viability of the community. Because that massive congestion which is inauthentic, will drive more people away from the game than just the ultra-purists who can’t see past themselves.

You’re substituting one mildly authentic experience, for a detrimental very inauthentic one, and claiming its because you want to talk to 6k people instead of 3k.

Vanilla didn’t let you meet 6k people on launch day. Neither do layers.

[Thundertotem-blackwater-raiders (Thundertotem)]

Bingo!

[Bricklethumb-anvilmar]

Grats man!!

The shiny new 10speed bike is in the post!