The problem with utility in a raid is that it isn’t needed. A holy paladin can do anything a ret paladin can do. Most guilds have even stopped using SP and given that job to a healer.
Utility is nice in small group content, but in a raid of 40, everyone has specialized roles.
You’re talking about classic right? Where a mage does nothing but spam frostbolt/fireball and warlocks spam shadowbolt.
Only if you’re geared to the teeth and have engineering and alchemy.
I agree. But there needs to be some way to block QQ from such players on the forums.
Yes and those abilities actually do great damage, so it’s fun. You are wanting to play an enhancement shaman because you want to pop windfury crits in a raid even though you could be a warrior who hits harder with just the 1 extra attack over the shamans 2, actually can sustain high damage and doesn’t have any fundamentally broken specs like enhance and ret. you want to feel useful because “lol imo totems” and you know how literally marginal those talents are. Enhancement is non competitive and is a pipe dream just like ret
The raid doesn’t need hybrids to have this utility you seem to be putting on a pedestal. You guys are WAY overvaluing the “utility” of ret and enhance and keep forgetting the big dps loss from just bringing them in the first place
Here again, does anybody has numbers to compare for a rogue, warrior and ret paladin equally geared?
I really wonder how big the difference is.
BTW, I’m just trying to be factual here, but for the record I’ve always been Holy since vanilla and will be playing holy for classic.
This gave me a giggle
It’s not entirely accurate, but you can expect rogues, warriors, and mages to hit about 1400-1600 roughly in Naxx where a paladin will do… about 600 at most if gearing for AP, or from what we’ve seen, 1100-1200 or so? going Spelladin.
Spelladin, if it works in Classic, is really the only way for a Ret to be competitive at all. It’s very farm intensive (you need to farm consumables and also as many Manual Crowd Pummelers as you can), but it’s the only way you can compete.
The number values aren’t inherently accurate but AP Ret (gearing like a Warrior by stacking Strength and a fat 2h) just doesn’t do a lot of damage since most of your damage is spell power based, which is why gearing for +SP is better.
My first 60 was a Ret Paladin.
It. Was. Awful.
Leveling took SO long to kill anything. Sure you were basically invincible, but the severe lack of offensive buttons to push while putting out pitiful damage was something else.
There was actually a long, elaborate forum post back then about how playing a ret pally was meant to be done while watching adult films because you didn’t havevto focus on playing.
Was a hilarious post, wish I could still find it.
People only want to play ret and enhance to feel like special snowflakes and be worshipped as “guy who raids offspec” when this scenario will not exist at all and no one cares. Ret and enhance is streamline selfish play
People want to play what they want to play. Don’t underestimate someone’s personal fantasy for their character. It’s not to be a special snowflake, and the biggest barrier for raiding is logistics - finding warm bodies.
The most selfish thing you can do is dictate how other plays.
But they’ll give buffs that help the entire raid do more damage, which would surpass that extra dps the rogue or warrior would have.
Blessing of salvation means high damage classes and tear up bosses without worrying about taking threat from the tank.
BoKings
BoLight
BoMight
BoSalv
BoWisdom
and…
Blessing of Sanctuary says hello
it functions like a mini defensive stance for all 40 people in a raid on top of providing the MT with bonus unmitigated dmg/threat
A Holy Paladin won’t be swinging Nightfall in a raid other than on Loatheb…
Just curious where those figures are coming from.
BoKings
I know its kinda meh, but people do like to have it for some reason.
damn you are correct sir - i will amend my error lol
I’t’s really hard to get accurate numbers like this. Even the numbers we do have are based on pservers which have already shown to be off in some regards (boss parry was way off), so we won’t know for sure how they actually perform in Classic yet.
I just checked the last 40 Naxx raids from Northdale, which I assume is still the largest pserver, there wasn’t a single ret paladin in any of them. This alone should tell you how viable raiding guilds view ret, but it also shows how hard it is to get accurate information on how they perform. It is possible to find ret in the lower tier raids, but it’s hard to judge them based on farmed content.
There are some players testing out the spellingbee spec on Nighthaven. Again though, these are geared naxx raiders on farming runs, and much of the data is skewed (paladin getting things like PI and innervate for example, something that would never be done in progression raiding)
You keep saying this, but it doesn’t really apply to dps. It’s easy to find dps for raids. Healers are what hold back raiding guilds, not dps.
Those 40 Naxx raids I looked at above, all had 4 or more healing paladins. They can cover all the buffs without a ret. Paladins are really good healers.
Pal1-Kings
Pal2-Might/Wisdom
Pal3-Salv/Sanc
Pal4-Light
Sanc is nice for tanks, who wont need salv. The damage mitigation is hardly worth giving to the entire raid, and certainly doesn’t merit losing raiddps .
Nightfall isn’t utility exclusive to a paladin.
Pretty much just from seeing logs from private servers, so as I said, not accurate.