We won’t know judgements can proc until its tested on the beta or live. Just because we remember something happening or pservers had something a certain way. Several things on beta have been different than peoples memory or pservers.
Regardless of what is tested, a class that relies on 2h swing timers w/o 100% proc rate on command will be sub-par dps.
At the same time a warrior can spam hamstring for minimal rage and have a much higher uptime on nightfall.
i think the only difference is that with the 1 ret you can keep that mana debuff up as well as the nightfall proc.
You don’t know how rage works dude.
All the guilds I’ve raided in holy pallies have no issue keeping up light/wisdom since they have “Lasting Judgement”, therefore it lasts much longer.
If you spec “deep holy” you can indeed get that talent. But if you have Ret Paladin(s), they don’t need it.
HAHAHA you say you aren’t doing something then immediately proceed to contradict yourself. Honestly WTF dude are you really that dense? Originally it was that I never raided in vanilla and once you failed with that point it changed to that I wasn’t alliance. You literally are moving the goal post to try and keep your argument relevant. The more you type the more stupid it gets. Whether I played Horde or Alliance isn’t irrelevant to the argument I’ve been making from the start.
wow dude…My words are there for you to read. My point has always been that being a competent player is all that matters in vanilla and that bringing a competent Ret pally would be more beneficial than bringing a trash player of any other spec. also that competent players are difficult to come by. This is just common sense. This philosophy works for all classes and both factions, how this is so difficult for you to grasp is beyond me.
This is getting ridiculous at this point, you aren’t even able to follow the conversation. You are either being dishonest or are unable to comprehend a simple concept. You can go back through every post I made in this thread and you will see how wrong you are when you are unable to quote anything that backs up what you are claiming. My point here has been consistent from the start. You are Trash at not only basic comprehension of this game, but also basic comprehension of a simple common sense argument.
If you’re going for a strictly pve build where else would you put those talents? There is nothing beneficial to pve to get aside from Lasting Judgement. If you’re hybrid pve/pvp then ya sure, but strictly pve nothing better.
Weren’t you an Esfand fanboy back before spellingbees?
To be honest, Vanilla era ret paladins were a lot like hunters. A lot of people played them, and so many of them were bad.
I’m not against anyone playing ret, I just don’t like when people come here saying that they will be welcomed with open arms to raids. This couldn’t be further from the truth. I never saw or heard of a ret paladin raiding as a main during retail vanilla. Not saying it didn’t happen, but none of the raiding guilds on my server used one. Pservers are pretty much the same. Yesterday I looked at the last 40 Naxx raids from Northdale, not a single ret paladin.
Now, if you want to play ret, I think the most important thing that a future ret paladin should learn is how to play support. Support isn’t really a thing in raids, but in 5mans and PvP it makes ret less garbage. Unfortunately the vast majority of ret paladins just want to be dps and will only cleanse/heal/shield themselves, all while watching their group die when they could be doing something to actually help other than provide subpar dps. I always hated getting wiped in a dungeon or while defending a flag in a BG and a paladin’s response to why he didn’t heal was “I’m not a healer”…
That’s another post YOU made, with the top comment telling you to chill on streamers. Not the best proof you could provide.
Conceding a point that isn’t altogether relevant is not moving a goal post. You coming in here saying that you aren’t talking about ret paladin raid viability, even though the rest of us are, is moving the goal post.
I already responded and refuted the points about your progression and gear. You made an unsubstantiated claim that I find unpersuasive.
The fact of the matter is we’re discussing the viability of ret paladin raiding. You weren’t there doing the content yourself. You can pick nits all you want about the reasons I disregard your opinion, but the bottom line is that your own claims irrefutably places you in a game context where you would have no information about paladin raid viability.
Your backpedaling doesn’t even make sense. You started out by implying you knew what you were talking about and then, when challenged, tried to prove you were playing in vanilla. You got so triggered by my response to your “expertise” on the subject that you insulted me every post and completely missed the fact that you couldn’t possibly have any first-hand information about pally raiding if what you’re claiming you did is actually truthful.
Rather than simply backing off, you doubled (and then tripled and quadrupled) down the insults. But here’s the thing: you can’t sit here and argue that a great player playing on anything he or she wants is more important than ret paladin deficiencies. You’re arguing from a position of ignorance.
tldr:
you got called out for not playing paladins in vanilla and arguing with someone who did
you spent all day arguing that you did, in fact, play horde during vanilla
you somehow think that makes you qualified to opine about pally raiding viability
but if someone calls you out on that, you’re not talking about paladins but rather just bad vs. good players in general
(but you already admitted that you don’t know what you’re talking about so there’s always that minor issue with your posts)
I was around back then guy, I remember being angry at Ret’s running by in a BG without helping. As a Warrior it especially stung, because a BoF / cleanse was really all I needed and he could be on his merry way to help me squash that mage, instead I’m dying to Shatter crits cause he can’t be bothered. Been there, felt that.
If they say Ret doesn’t need to play like a Paladin, then yes, they should be corrected. Flip side, people telling others who want to play ret to get in the back and heal, are just as bad.
Fwiw, I am almost entirely sure I will be maining a deep Ret Paladin for Classic. Years of Warrior play made me jealous that Ret’s could actually do things to save the group in WPvP, in BGs, in dungeons, Raids. As a Warrior, you’re entirely dependent on players that -can- do those things, and do 'em well. I’ve learned that old style of support play is my preferred style of play. If it means I don’t get to raid, well, whatever. There’s other things to do.
huh? the reasons why I dislike the lolretbull are in that reddit thread - I have nothing against streamers - except for retail wow streamers like Preach who crapped on Nost/Vanilla when it was a threat to their money cash cows:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Nostalrius/comments/4etume/preach_claims_support_wasnt_truly_there/
Lots to unpack here.
Hmm. I’ll be nice: you’re wrong. Ret Paladins were in NAXX.
We have no idea how “the majority” of any class played. All we have is anecdotal evidence and stereotypes. And we know now private data is pretty much a big loud empty wet fart.
If you’re wiping in 5 mans and dying in BGs, the common denominator is YOU, not the PUG.
I have not been a “fanboi” of Esfand for quite some time since he pulled some really shady stuff about a year and a half ago and continues to do so to this day
a lot of it is laid on this reddit thread
https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/bre15a/greatest_hits_from_week_1_of_the_classic_beta/
I didn’t say that, Skjaldbjorn did.
my apologies
They trash in pvp tho and thats all that matters yeah
Without going into specifics, pservers have always been viewed as wonky as far back as '05/06. The developers behind those servers had to reverse engineer the data and, at least in those early days, the players always knew it was the best they could do with the best they had.
I find it strange the players on those servers seem to have forgotten that part of their roots.
I don’t think you understand what PPM is.
You oculd launch 1000 attacks at a target in the space of a minute and you still wouldn’t get nightfall to proc more than 4 times.
You didn’t watch his video . He’s ALWAYS been for people getting private servers, He was saying the support overall wasn’t there and that at the time private servers and classic weren’t for him. Her also said in that video that alot of people hurt the chances of getting classic by signing the thread on multiple fake accounts to boost numbers.