Ret Paladins, How viable will they be?

[Slyvaun-moon-guard]

They claim that arms warriors were unplayable trash, because that’s what everyone else said, and no one invited them to groups because they were a sizeable difference behind fury warriors and destro locks sitting at the top.

I played an Arms Warrior… I understand this pain.

t DPS in raids as a holy priest. (Yes, this happened. Haste stack until 1.0 smite cast time, then stack crit. Chakra: Chastise. Smite spam and you’re good to go. Only suffered on long fights due to mana.)

Holy s**t I forgot this actually had happened.

These threads are becoming more a meme that hybrids in a DPS role ever were.

Their meme status arguably is why playing with two back then was so much fun, I have FOND memories of those two Ret pallies especially because both of them were a delight to be around and carried their weight.

[Lahgtah-moon-guard (Lahgtah)]

I played an Arms Warrior… I understand this pain.

I played one too as an alt. Never got invited to any PuG’s, which always struck me as odd since I did just fine in my guild raids. I did my part, we killed the bosses, and nobody had any problems with it.

Just goes to show how community perception is often a little bit of truth under an ocean of hyperbole. If there is anything constant in all of WoW’s history, it is this.

Holy s**t I forgot this actually had happened.

It was great fun, and didn’t really pop up until some time after SoO during that great content drought. I suspect similar sort of things will happen in classic, where players get experimental and start actually playing the game for fun rather than stressing out of meters.

[Skjaldbjorn-lightbringer (Skjaldbjorn)]

which is why you want to maximize your Nightfall uptime

My point is that high uptime is only possible on fights like Patch. On every fight that isn’t a tank and spank, even ret and hunters will have garbage uptime, so it’s not worth having a dedicated NF player. Just give it to OTs and be done with it.

if it goes live with a 10% proc rate

Doubt they will use pserver numbers.

http://web.archive.org/web/20070821131917/http://wow.allakhazam.com/item.html?witem=11684

gnomer MCP farming literally takes 5 mins per clear

Keep in mind you can only run 5 times per hour. Meaning 30 minutes running it followed by 30 minutes waiting/playing an alt/another game. At a 40% drop rate, you would need to run it 25 times in order to have 1 for each boss in MC, plus another couple times for Ony. Once BWL launches that’s another 20 gnomer runs, up to almost 50 runs per week

[Loravir-aegwynn]

Keep in mind you can only run 5 times per hour.

Wasn’t it 10 until the big bot wave in Pandaria?

[Nermal-echo-isles (Nermal)]

Honestly raid bosses will die in like a minute so none of this matters. Best way to ignore mechanics is to just reduce to 0 before the mechanics happen. That’s my philosophy.

This is also how it works in retail raiding. Don’t need to worry about certain mechanics on certain phases if you can just BL/Hero and cheese it with some explosive DPS.

I haven’t played in BFA but I did play in legion. I learned dps is the end all be all. Just kill stuff before someone can make a mistake. That does somewhat apply to classic too, since you have such a large 40 man raid group.

Why play it as written when you can have 40 people throwing an Engineering bomb? I can certainly see it happening.

[Slyvaun-moon-guard]

Keep in mind you can only run 5 times per hour. Meaning 30 minutes running it followed by 30 minutes waiting/playing an alt/another game. At a 40% drop rate, you would need to run it 25 times in order to have 1 for each boss in MC, plus another couple times for Ony. Once BWL launches that’s another 20 gnomer runs, up to almost 50 runs per week

I know you are arguing against it but I now want to commission a art piece of a Paladin just sitting in a pile of MCP’s with a crazed look in his/her eyes.

[Slyvaun-moon-guard]

I suspect similar sort of things will happen in classic, where players get experimental and start actually playing the game for fun rather than stressing out of meters.

On the Casual scene if it doesn’t turn out to be a toxic wastefest, most certainly you’ll see people probably experiment around some to see what wacky things could work if only for the meme potential.

[Theloras-llane (Theloras)]

My point is that high uptime is only possible on fights like Patch. On every fight that isn’t a tank and spank, even ret and hunters will have garbage uptime, so it’s not worth having a dedicated NF player. Just give it to OTs and be done with it.

I average ~40% debuff uptime solo across all boss fights - this obviously spikes higher and goes lower depending on the fight/movement/adds etc - but this average is confirmed not only by my personal testing (with a macro that tracks uptime) but also on PTRs against test dummies or boss spawns by other theory crafters

as far as MCP goes, it’s not a weapon - it’s a consumable - change your PoV and you will understand it better - the white dmg literally doesn’t matter to us but the melee HASTE is all important

we’re not going to waste all 3 charges (90 secs) on a boss that dies in under 30 seconds in MC nor are we going to waste charges on trash mobs - that’s why you have a backup weapon like Ironfoe (regardless of its proc rate) or Blade of Hanna or Flurry Axe etc

and yes you get instance capped after 5 resets - which means you go and farm other raid consumables/herbs that you need for your raids or you run some dungeons or you go play some bgs

Gnomer is just outside of Ironforge for pete’s sake - it’s not like you have to fly across all of Kalimdor just to reach the instance…

[Theloras-llane (Theloras)]

I know you are arguing against it but I now want to commission a art piece of a Paladin just sitting in a pile of MCP’s with a crazed look in his/her eyes.

not me but here you go…

Mourtagh
Last Sunday at 1:41 PM
Its pretty expansive
lets say i would brign 25 Shadow oils pr raid, since counting in wipes etc
3gold each on my server
I dont know how much i use pr raid… dont wanna calculate atm
But its surely 100’s of gold if u go all in
My consumes list for last raid
100 Juju Flurry
20 Juju Power
20 Juju Might
100 Stratholm Holy Water
100 Oil of Immolation
10 Winterfall Firewater
5 Elixir of Mongoose
5 FAP
5 x each prot pot
40 Dark runes
50 Mana Potions
40 Dragonbreath Chili
10 Shadow oil
5 Mageblood Potion
10 Greater Firepower
10 Shadow Power
5 Greater Arcane Power
Blasted Lands Agi/Str
Zanza Speed + Stam
5x Spellpower flask
20 Nightfin Soup
20 LIP
15 MCP - Manual Crowd Pummeler
200 Symbols, 5 Divinity
Holy Mightstone
20 Sappers
20 Dense Dynamite

Went… a little overboard tho xD didnt use it all

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/530489467140833282/585050933361377288/unknown.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/530489467140833282/584922981629820968/unknown.png

[Aldenel-emerald-dream]

Holy Mightstone

But you only get to use that once D: For use on KT only as it’s the only thematically appropriate option.

[Theloras-llane (Theloras)]

But you only get to use that once D: For use on KT only as it’s the only thematically appropriate option.

again, wasn’t me but a Ret Paladin on Elysium who went all out

Ironically enough I still have my Holy Mightstone on my retail Paladin lol

[Slyvaun-moon-guard]

But you only get to use that once D: For use on KT only as it’s the only thematically appropriate option.

I’m saving my Holy Mightstone for the most appropriate time tbh. One of the Rets I played with said he was never going to use his until Arthas became a Raid Boss.

Apparently he used it in ICC though this was ages ago so I have no way of confirming how true this is.

[Aldenel-emerald-dream]

Ironically enough I still have my Holy Mightstone on my retail Paladin lol

As do I! I needed it incase I needed to kill a Lich. I felt like that was the only reasonable scenario to use it and by the time WOTLK rolled around I had forgotten about it for 25 man Naxx.

[Theloras-llane (Theloras)]

As do I! I needed it incase I needed to kill a Lich. I felt like that was the only reasonable scenario to use it and by the time WOTLK rolled around I had forgotten about it for 25 man Naxx.

[Slyvaun-moon-guard]

Is it safe to assume The Last Stand is a Ret pallies claimed donut steel music?

[Stabystabs-zuljin]

The answer to this is: utility isn’t as fun as DPS to most players, and it seems that the people most likely to say “you’re utility, accept it” are DPS players that have no interest in playing utility, either.

[Rözen-the-scryers (Rözen)]

I mean, if they don’t want to be utility then they shouldn’t play a hybrid class? There are pure classes and hybrid classes. If you want to be pure then be pure. Don’t play hybrid and wonder why no one treats you like a pure class. Hybrids have their place but when it comes to downing raid bosses pure dps classes are priority.

[Slyvaun-moon-guard]

Anyone who rolls up as a Ret and goes “Nah bruh I only do damage, Blessings and Seals for myself.” Deserves to not even be allowed in 5-mans.

EDIT: In fact that’s the sort of player mentality that Classic should be discouraging.

[Aldenel-emerald-dream]

I mean, if they don’t want to be utility then they shouldn’t play a hybrid class?

I’m pretty much only playing to Heal/Support on my Paladin but if I get a chance to DPS then I’m gonna embarrass some pure DPS classes if I can.

[Theloras-llane (Theloras)]

Keep in mind you can only run 5 times per hour. Meaning 30 minutes running it followed by 30 minutes waiting/playing an alt/another game. At a 40% drop rate, you would need to run it 25 times in order to have 1 for each boss in MC, plus another couple times for Ony. Once BWL launches that’s another 20 gnomer runs, up to almost 50 runs per week

PS here is a very good breakdown of why MCP isn’t there for its white DPS but acts more like a consumable in order to boost all our other attacks which do matter:

BravadoradoYesterday at 10:31 PM

SoR damage treats MCP as a 2.0 speed weapon for damage, even with the haste effects bringing it down to the 1.0 speed range, so it essentially doubles SoR damage, then add spellpower, vengeance, 2H spec on top and it’s a nice meme

BravadoradoYesterday at 10:37 PM

If you consider the on use of MCP to always be in effect, it’s AS is 1.333… which increases the dps to 43.5 dps, so it’s really not much worse than some high level daggers. Consider Felstriker which is 45.6 dps. Obviously felstriker has it’s proc to make it stronger, but we’re interested in speed.
So MCP is essentially a 2 handed dagger that benefits from mace spec, 2H spec, double SoR damage, and a super fast attack speed (Especially when you add in scrolls, counterweight, minor haste, juju, etc)
And then we have memes like SoR causing essentially double procs, so things like HoJ get double plus good.
And shadow oil/chili are nice bits to boost us up that bit more