Fair enough.
Also, my sentence regarding your (and my) perspective regarding player ability, etc. was worded poorly. I intended to say that it’s my opinion rather than you are factually wrong. It’s a matter of opinion that the player-base is more sophisticated now than historically, but I disagree with that opinion based on my experiences as both a tank and healer.
Not sure how you came to that conclusion because they didn’t even track things like that back in vanilla. That couldn’t be more obvious as they don’t even have a Naxx tab in the Vanilla section. I literally have teir 3 on my toon, If this is the level of intelligence you are bringing to the table then I’m not sure you have much value to add to this conversation.
I was in guilds called Legacy (shadowmoon) where we Farmed Cthun and Then we merged with Nerve (chrommaggus) were we got all but 2 bosses In Naxx down before TBC.
That’s fair enough I primarily just jumped on the validity of my statement regarding Vanilla, I played during it up until 08 I played mainly on that account, but stopped after awhile I primarily lost major interest in Raiding and dedicating myself to WoW for a while (Overall found myself on Consoles a lot more.) I renewed that account back when I wanted some fresh memories and checked out a s**t ton of my old stuff from like TBC and the Wrath days.
This account was made however when I began really getting into Tabletop around the sametime and I loved RPing so It sorta became my casual account, eventually just ended up becoming what I mainly played until BFA turned out to be hot garbage.
Imagine a player who started playing WoW in MoP. They played through the 2-3 years of the expansion, then they claim they’re an expert who knows everything about the expansion.
They claim that arms warriors were unplayable trash, because that’s what everyone else said, and no one invited them to groups because they were a sizeable difference behind fury warriors and destro locks sitting at the top.
They claim that their spec sucked T-totally, because they were playing an arms warrior, even though the margins to complete every facet of content was well within the realm of an arms warrior completing it.
They claim arms warriors sucked entirely, even though arms was improved significantly at the last patch of the expansion.
Meanwhile, there were players sitting in silence laughing at their childish cynicism and whining who were doing sufficient DPS in raids as a holy priest. (Yes, this happened. Haste stack until 1.0 smite cast time, then stack crit. Chakra: Chastise. Smite spam and you’re good to go. Only suffered on long fights due to mana.)
Now, replace MoP with Vanilla, and replace arms warrior with ret paladin. That’s why I always have difficulty putting stock in the whole “oh, I played vanilla, so you better sit down and shut up while I tell you how hardcore you had to be to get out of the starter zone” sort of thing.
These threads are becoming more a meme that hybrids in a DPS role ever were.
um which Offtank is going to be available to swing Nightfall on Patchwerk exactly?
i did it for a year on Anathema with a modified RECK spec and loved it cause it meant I didn’t have to spec out of my PvP spec and the guild loved me for doing it and gave me prio on every 2h weapon that dropped - I got the first Ashkandi and Neretzek that dropped for us
He’s not specifically saying Patchwerk. Most fights AREN’T Patchwerk fights, meaning the OT could swing Nightfall.
If an OT swung Nightfall on Patchwerk they’d get Hateful Strike’d to death in a sneeze.
he literally said Patchwerk my friend - hence my /guffaw at him
“Nightfall min/maxing isn’t worth it anyways. That uptime only works on a few fights. Most fights aren’t patchwork tank and spanks.”
Afaik, you’ve only proved it to work with a low level weapon from perhaps one of the worst and most annoying dungeons, that only has 3 charges, and an absolute truck load of consumables, and even then it still won’t outperform other specs with the same amount of effort involved in min/maxing.
It’s most definitely not worth the effort for most people. If you want to put forth the effort, more power to you bud, but no progression guild will actively seek out Ret paladins simply because a few people are zealous in their attempt at proving Ret is capable.
Which means the OT could swing Nightfall when it isn’t Patchwerk. That’s how I’m interpreting it.
Because we all know you can’t OT Patchwerk with a Nightfall. Hopefully, right guys?
no one is suggesting that a SPELLADIN try out for an elitist min/max guild - if anything you want to avoid them like the plague if you are anything other than Holy spec
gnomer MCP farming literally takes 5 mins per clear to get to the boss, kill him and reset the instance
rinse
repeat
Maybe so, but the effort involved in maintaining the sheer amount of consumables needed to get the level of dps you’ll need to compare to other specs is another thing entirely. It’s this that will be the barrier to entry for most people in even bothering to dps as Ret in raids.
and have really bad uptime on the debuff - we did the math and we looked at every class/spec that can swing Nightfall
if you want to maximize your debuff uptime then you need multiple people swinging it and for Alliance Retribution has the highest uptime plus personal DPS of anyone to do it
sure you can give it to your Fury Warriors for the highest uptime bar none but their personal dps will go down the toilet - it’s not hyperbole - their personal DPS on a PW style fight goes down from a max threshold of ~1800 DPS while dual wielding 2x KT weapons to ~900 DPS while swinging Nightfall
Same with Melee Hunters - they have slightly higher uptime than Retribution but their personal DPS goes even further down the toilet to lol levels
the challenge is what makes it so enjoyable - I’ve never once said going Ret was easy - it is a pain in the butt to make it work on any level
but if we wanted things to be easy, we’d still be playing LOL BFA…
PS MCP farming won’t be needed if Ironfoe goes live with a 10% proc rate so stay tuned my friend!
![:joy:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/joy.png?v=6" ":joy:")
Ret
1hand Ret spec? Wut?
10 characters
if it goes live with a 10% proc rate it becomes better than KT weapons - same would apply to Fury Warriors
Fixed that for you, read the entire sentence.
yes which is why you want to maximize your Nightfall uptime as much as you can friend - since the OT Warrior swinging Nightfall has the lowest uptime of any class/spec that can swing the axe but is also weaving Annihilator stacks as well
math