In raids and on the battlegrounds.
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Sad but true, love my pink guys though. Thanks for the occasional freedom <3
Edit: To be clear, I’ve had some ret pallies do amazing things in Warsong, but unfortunately those are things they could do better if they were a different spec.
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Yeah they’re basically pointless and taking up the place of someone who will actually contribute meaningfully to whatever you’re doing. It’s the ultimate selfish meme spec.
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Lol Iam. You don’t even pvp ally side anymore stop trolling. Bad players are a burden.
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Better Ret than Enhance tho
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Hmm, interesting question.
Obviously elemental is of course better… But is enhance worse than ret?
I don’t agree, purge is invaluable in BGs. It may also be a meme, but the baseline abilities of the two are on different levels.
From my PoV, shamans get Purge/frostshock/ghostwolf. Paladins get HoJ, Freedom, BoP. I value the purge over any of those, and the slow is a welcome addition.
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Any class can be valuable with decent gear/skill. And God tier with engineering.
Also, Ret is ridiculously good in full healing plate for wsg. Come at me.
LMAFO. I can remember when they announced classic servers. And everyone said “ret paladin’s aren’t bad.” Now you write threads like this one and call them a meme spec. 
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Yes, Ret can be useful, enh never.
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IMO yes. BoP saves lives. So does HoJ. Cleanse keeps people in the fight and so does freedom. Assuming both players are good and actually using their supporting abilities, I’d choose to have a ret paladin at my back 10 out of 10 times over an enhance shaman. Purge and totems are nice, but it’s nowhere near all the utility baked into Paladin regardless of spec. Enhance shaman gets kited, and he offers virtually nothing to the fight other than some minor healing till his mana runs out fast. A Ret Paladin gets kited and he still has all the baseline Paladin support.
I actually don’t mind having a ret pally partner. They do appreciable damage while also capable of supporting.
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Actually that’s not true - ret can be awesome if they’re playing wingman for a warrior assisting on kills but first priority is keep the warrior up and using their utility like a true hybrid.
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But what about the triple WF crits?
Lol, fair points. I’ve got a 60 elemental which is just pure joy, but never specced enhance.
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Being able to cc two people and freedom/speed pot out with a flag is pretty clutch. Esp doing it in full plate with a shield
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Triple Windfury Crit isn’t terribly common and realistically isn’t any better than a Paladin doing AA Crit, Seal of Command Crit, Judgement of Command Crit -> Hammer of Wrath.
IMO. Enhance is strictly for leveling. They lose to every other melee heads up, they lose to warlocks heads up. They get kited and killed by druids mages and hunters.
The only matchup they realistically have a shot at is vs priest. And even that’s questionable.
This is all assuming good players with decent gear and pvp specs of course. Throwing uneven matchups at them its quite different.
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That’s exactly what I said, Ret can be useful
I will agree that ret is better than enhance in PvP, though I’ve had an enhance shaman with hand of rag hit me with stormstrike and get a windfury proc at the same time, and my 6k health in bearform was just gone. I read the combat log and it was about 8 hits of nothing but crits.
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ret sucks even with good gear. 90% of the time you will do the same amount of dps staying in healing gear and just casting consecrate. whoever thought seal of command should deal 70% weapon damage vastly overestimated its damage output
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You ever been hit with an Auto crit + Seal of command crit? It’s instantly half your health. I’ve seen rets one hit priests and mages. They can do INSANELY good burst damage, but its extremely RNG based. Both the auto and SoC have to crit. Otherwise the damage is kinda garbo.
so when im ret the most dps ill deal over 30 seconds while using seal of wisdom, judgement of wisdom, seal of command, then using judgement/seal of command on cooldown, using holy shock on cooldown, the most dps ill do is about 208, and thats with herald of woe with crusader and +8dmg weighted. like its a joke. the burst damage will be like 348(white) 428(orange), then judgement for like 240(orange) and i mean thata like barely 1k damage meanwhile a geared fury warrior is critting 1k left and right