Seal of Righteousness - Now does holy damage on every swing. It can now proc correctly as well. The Judgement effect has been renamed “Judgement of Righteousness” to differentiate it from the Seal damage in the combat log.
Judgement of Righteousness - The damage of this judgement was increased significantly. This judgement can now trigger procs. The bonus from spell damage items has been increased slightly.
patch 1.9 notes
So if that’s the case neimia’s numbers would be wrong well not wrong but inaccurate because they didn’t use JoR in the calculation. And with improved judgements 2/2 would be a huge increase in chances to proc nightfall.
Also would that mean crusader may actually be a decent enchant to use or would lifestealing still be the better choice?
-Sinclaire -Torch-
Lifestealing would still be better overall as you would be stacking spell dmg gear with SoR/JoR + Nightfall and it provides better overall Vengeance uptime which is our top DPS increase talent/ability.
Cool story to add from back on Nost - Lifestealing enchant scaled with spell damage as well making it the best overall Ret enchant by far even though that was a bug and obviously not Blizzlike.
Guess who used/abused it with his unblizzlike for the patch release at the time Field Marshal gear which had a lot of +spell dmg on it?
Forum Mod Edit: This post has been edited by a moderator due to masked language as it is in violation of the Code of Conduct.
Assuming you spam Judgement on cooldown that would be 75 additional proc chances.
Though even with that, Hunters are still sitting at ~23% more procs, with those procs still being more spread out.
It may be some kind of PPM thing that’s limiting just how good Wingclip spam actually is.
So wait does lifestealing stack with spell power or not, your post made it seem like it wasn’t blizzcon? Or maybe I just misread it?
-Sinclaire -Torch-
it never did on retail - it was a bug on nost - it scaling with spell dmg made it OP AF for Rets
but even more so if you had an even more unBlizzlike addition of being able to get the final updated Field Marshal set with loads of +spell damage stats on it even though that set wasn’t released until much later in Vanilla
Ask Archeon/Holystrike/Thomas about that lol
So what I am asking is on a blizzlike server aka as classic wow, lifestealing is still better then crusader? I am trying to confirm for my giant classic wow spreadsheet I am working on. And if lifestealing doesn’t scale with spell power on a blizzlike server would that mean corrupted ashbringer also wouldn’t scale?
And I personally don’t care a rats buttcrack about Archeon/hokystrike/Thomas I care about the topic, and getting as much information as possible about the retribution specialization.
-Sinclaire -Torch-
no - two completely different things
lifestealing enchant =/= life drain from weapons/items
lifestealing not scaling with spell dmg is Blizzlike
life drain however scales at 100% spell dmg
Xolkar 20/0/31 Paladin PvP
Published on Aug 13, 2006
See the +571 Drain Life proc? It’s from this weapon:
Neretzek, The Blood Drinker
Binds when picked up
Two-hand Axe
202 - 303 Damage Speed 3.70
(68.2 damage per second)
+21 Strength
+16 Stamina
Durability 120 / 120
Requires Level 60
Chance on hit: Steals 141 to 164 life from target enemy.
Alright so life steal scales at 100% spell power we have that down.
So on a blizzlike server lifestealing enchant will still be better then crusader and all other enchants due to it increasing the chance to get vengeance as you said in the prior post correct?
-Sinclaire -Torch-
Did you test with unjudged SoTC for maxed uptime or were your tests purely based of a combination of personal DPS + uptime?
I also believe Kalimdor’s Revenge scaled with spell power on Nost core. I used to get some massive crits with it. Either that or it was just the proc itself critting. I don’t recall Darkmoon Card doing such big bursts, but that’s all off of my drug-skewed memory.
This is the truth. Well said. My Warriors have all been fun and very noticeable when they get their upgrades, but my Paladin constantly saved so many people from deaths questing, Horde PvPers, imminent wipes in groups, and still did great DPS in the 5-man setting. It is such a great class.
it is my opinion that yes, especially with full world buffs, that Lifestealing is better than Crusader as the top Ret enchant since Vengeance is our top DPS boost talent/ability
likewise, it is also better when using SoR/JoR + Nightfall since Crusader will do very little to boost your DPS with that type of build/rotation
no point testing with Seal of the Crusader as it had been nerfed to the ground by that point on Lightshope and will be once Classic launches
So would the rotation on a blizzlike server be something like this? Judge sotc (if guild allows it), seal of righteousness, consecrate rank one (unless vengeance then max rank) and judge off cooldown? I feel like that rotation would drain your mana extremely fast.
I almost feel like using consecration at all would almost make you go out of mana extremely fast? This is as a nightfall wielded.
-Sinclaire -Torch-
Black Grasp of the Destroyer gloves + Judgement of Wisdom + Mana Pots + Dark Runes = no mana issues
all things being equal though, max rank consecration is a mana pig and only a small portion of our total DPS
you want to make sure to least spam rank 1 Consecration as each one of its ticks has a chance to proc this ring:
Wrath of Cenarius
Binds when picked up
Unique
Finger
Equip: [Gives a chance when your harmful spells land to increase the damage of your spells and effects by 132 for 10 sec.]
Which simply put, makes it THE BEST AoE tanking ring for Paladins in the entire game.
One other thing to note is another thread from the previous version of the classic forums that you may have read through since you are putting together a spread sheet:
Proc Items + Spell Dmg + JotC stacking?
Aside from Dark Runes, Major Mana pots, and Night Dragons, I used to roll with a Blade of Hanna with Lifestealing while putting up wisdom and auto attacking. You’ll lose some DPS but gain back a lot of mana. I only did this on longer fights, which were few and far between running with a good guild. If your guild is downright good, most fights last just a couple minutes.
So you were only really looking at it from a combined uptime/DPS combination then.Wasn’t taking a dig, was just wondering how much 40% swing speed would skew the uptime numbers vs the extra chances from seal and judgement.
BTW Loial/Basecamp - I was actually wrong when I said that Holystrike had never beaten Smiter on DPS.
But to say it was a fair and accurate comparison would be intellectually dishonest lol…
You see, Holystrike had the full rank 13 updated Field Marshal set with loads of spell damage (unBlizzlike at that patch iteration for Nost FYI) and was swinging Ashkandi.
Whereas Smiter was in pre-raid blues and swinging the DM West quest reward mace:
Bonecrusher
Binds when picked up
Two-hand Mace
129 - 194 Damage Speed 3.00
(53.8 damage per second)
+30 Strength
Durability 100 / 100
Equip: [Improves your chance to get a critical strike by 1%.]
and had only just upgraded to a MC 2hander - namely Obsidian Edged Blade.
Go to the Nost forums and do a search for “Ret Pve Tips/Guide” by Smiter in the Paladin section:
Re: Ret Pve Tips/Guide
by Theloras » Sat Feb 13, 2016 9:15 pm
Holystrike wrote:
you are doing it on irrelevant content however, and using that as a means to grant yourself credibility while advising rets to gear incorrectly and miss vital consumables…
If you are going to write a guide make sure you are using all the consumables which a ret should use in your own raids first… wasting them to do 30 more dps in Molten Core then someone unworld-buffed and unflasked is not a worth while investment
Holy - you are incorrect here and I have to step in and ask you to step away from this thread.
Smiter is putting up numbers in both MC and BWL. His gear is what he has at the moment as well - not everyone can afford the time required to grind up to rank 10 to get 6/6 blue set or even worse to rank 12/13 for epic set. IIRC, there’s only one raiding Ret that has GM Claymore…
Likewise, not very many Rets have the luxury of having Ashkandi or any other decent 3.5 or slower swing speed 2handed weapon in which to DPS with Seal of Command. All of the MC 2handers are 3.4 swing speed which mean that SotC is the better Seal to use.
Similarly, not every guild allows a single Judgement of the Crusader, let alone JotC stacking for multiple debuffs. Judging Wisdom is more than often the only option open to a raiding Ret Paladin, further pushing their DPS Seal and rotation towards SotC over SoC. Stocar wouldn’t allow double Ret (you and I) in The Council so I left and the officers in Luminous Force didn’t allow double JotC either (would have been Smiter and I).
Smiter uses every consumable available - he doesn’t slouch.
I’m using Blade of Hanna (2.1 speed) over The Untamed Blade (3.4 speed) due to its OP swing speed when used with SotC (1.5 speed)for max Vengeance uptime and Lifesteal procs.
TLDR - Ret’s gear and dps rotation is 100% dependant on what gear they have access to, what debuff they are allowed to put up and what swing speed their weapon is.
all good - took no offence
SoR provides flat 50% proc boost compared to SotC providing 40%
and then Judging Righteousness every 8 seconds provides an additional source/chance to proc on top of the flat 50% from the Seal since SoR procs on every single swing