Ret paladin viability

[Gratefultime-hyjal]

Am I the only one here that didn’t raid in vanilla cause it sure seems like it.

A minority of Vanilla players raided at all, and something like 0.1% cleared Naxx-40. You are not the only one who is drawn to Classic and won’t raid much (or at all), but I wonder how rare or common – relative to how it was in Vanilla – the hardcore raider, the casual raider, and the non-raider will be in Classic.

What kind of crowd will this game draw, do you think?

I was more PvP than raiding, but that doesnt diminish the raiding I DID do! We just didnt get Sapph and KT before they got nerfed to hell and back a couple months before TBC rolled out. I raided on my characters to experience the WHOLE aspect of the game back when it wasnt Farm this same 5 man dungeon 8bajillion times for your titanforge BIS. GO!

Back when you could devote a couple days a week to being geared, and spend the rest of it actually having fun as you saw fit.

[Cabernét-destromath]

Ah man, I was like “nice!” then I was like “we’re NA EST tho”, well some lucky guild will get you for sure :)

[Loial-shadowsong (Loial)]

On Northdale you had APES, Progress, Celebrity/Goon Squad, Dank Budzz Collective, and another 5 random Alliance guilds all within a week of each other. The only way it won’t happen is if the server populations are low. Make no mistake, with the 16 debuff slots and the extra gear available, plenty of guilds will conquer Ragnaros and Onyxia far earlier than expected.

[Thundathys-amanthul (Thundathys)]

In 1.12 it was already the “points for gear” system and why its being released in the time gate after MC

It was either the pre-patch or 1.13 that brought that change in.

[Backagain-chogall]

I’ve heard a lot of people saying they’ll have Rag down by the end of the first week, but I’m not so sure that’s true. By week three Rag will definitely be on farm for a few guilds, but with server caps being much lower than p servers, I’m betting it’ll be a bit slower to fill out an entire guild.

[Gratefultime-hyjal]

They kept 1.12 for class balance. I cannot see them re-implementing the HWL grind in any aspect other than maybe finding some way to earn the titles… When they swapped it to the points for gear system they definitely said that the HWL/FM grind was a mistake. I cannot see them re-implementing that same aspect.

[Eaglesgift-ravenholdt (Eaglesgift)]

When they swapped it to the points for gear system they definitely said that the HWL/FM grind was a mistake.

Whomever claimed that the honor system was a mistake contributed to the overall gradual trashing of the game. The real mistake was taking gameplay away from the Vanilla model.

[Archeon-frostmourne (Archeon)]

Haha, I am going back and doing my Masters next year so should have a little more flexible time schedule raided NA times during my undergrad years so depending on the days of the week could work out allright add me and keep me posted
e.g its 10:30am in aus atm which would be a chill time to hit it after the morning coffee

[Thundathys-amanthul (Thundathys)]

To me, the best rets in the world are the ones who top those charts on warcraft logs. They still down the content, they do their intended/desired job the best.

Why do you talk like this? You’re a tunnelling meathead who chases logs instead of progression.

[Thundathys-amanthul (Thundathys)]

Helping a few healers get cleanses off 5 seconds faster than they otherwise would is still useless

Obviously you’ve never paid attention to the debuffs in classic raids and you’ve NEVER healed a progression raid.
99% of all debuffs need to be removed asap.

[Akaidian-earthen-ring (Akaidian)]

Markedly false. Again, you people act like the best parses now-a-days come from people who just completely ignore stuff and do nothing. You simply can’t do that or play like that. There are unavoidable mechanics, far far more now than back in the day. The difference is more of them are personal ones, which again just reinforces that today’s game is harder and demands more skill of the INDIVIDUAL.

Progression is best achieved by chasing performance to the Nth degree, period. We know everything going into wow. There is no mechanic discovery. There is no trial and error. There are strats that are set in stone and have been perfected beyond comparison thanks to p-servers endlessly reliving the same content over and over.

I constantly paid attn to raid debuffs, but it’s not like we were ever clamoring for some scrub hybrid. Either we needed more healing and removal or we needed more damage. There were literally 0 instances where the exact piece of the puzzle we needed was some hybrid scrub tossing out a few extra utilities and then going back to mediocre damage.

The break point between “has enough healing to down the boss but not enough removal/cleanse/decurse/etc” is non-existent. They were the one and the same.

[Zeliek-moon-guard (Zeliek)]

I’ve heard a lot of people saying they’ll have Rag down by the end of the first week, but I’m not so sure that’s true. By week three Rag will definitely be on farm for a few guilds, but with server caps being much lower than p servers, I’m betting it’ll be a bit slower to fill out an entire guild.

Korean MC clear was done first try with everyone still in their quest greens, I think it will be fine.

[Silverbolt-shadowmoon (Silverbolt)]

I like how Thete (a ret streamer youtuber) put it - do you want to be an average DPSer or do you want to be an exceptional healer?

[Zeliek-moon-guard (Zeliek)]

There are strats that are set in stone and have been perfected beyond comparison thanks to p-servers endlessly reliving the same content over and over

Those same private servers apparently had for years the wrong rage generation formula that gave warriors too much rage. Tolerated spec gimping bugs because no one wanted to bring gimp specs to a raid. Even keeping holy resist as an actual resist in the game.

Those same private servers gave us the math and experience that hybrid heavy raids can clear all the content.

I like how Thete (a ret streamer youtuber) put it - do you want to be an average DPSer or do you want to be an exceptional healer?

Why not both? It doesn’t hurt to be flexible and in fact not very hard so you can be an average dps and only slightly less of an exceptional healer.

[Akaidian-earthen-ring (Akaidian)]

Again, this is not about what’s possible. This is about what the mindset of the community around raiding 100% absolutely beyond any doubt WILL be. There will be tryhards and fail groups, just like OG vanilla, with the exception that tryhards will be able to be more demanding and exclusive.

[Thundathys-amanthul (Thundathys)]

The break point between “has enough healing to down the boss but not enough removal/cleanse/decurse/etc” is non-existent. They were the one and the same.

Once again your complete lack of knowledge + meter focus is blinding you here.
-Dispelling puts a healer into the 5 second rule.
-Sometimes a healer can’t dispel their debuff or theres too many going out. AKA firespawn trash and geddons mana bomb.
-Sometimes a healer can’t remove the debuff type IE curses for pallies therefore requiring druids to do it for them, druids can’t dispel magic therefore they need pallies or priests to do it for them.

Modern progression is how you’ve described it, classic progression is a completely different beast. You strike me as the person to cry at a healer when you die from a debuff you could have removed yourself but didn’t want to spend a GCD.

[Zeliek-moon-guard (Zeliek)]

Let them? All the rest of us will grab the raiders that burn out raiding 2-3 toons a week and actually have fun raiding.

If you want things in perspective, pre-nerf C’thun was perfectly doable.

[Akaidian-earthen-ring (Akaidian)]

Modern progression is how you’ve described it, classic progression is a completely different beast. You strike me as the person to cry at a healer when you die from a debuff you could have removed yourself but didn’t want to spend a GCD.

You assume I complain at all whenever I die for any reason (even if it’s actually a healer’s fault). Definitely not. There’s a difference between the expectation going into a raid with a group and how it will shake out. That’s a given. The pre-stage, however, you always try to maximize everything BECAUSE you know that garbage will happen and you still want to succeed despite that.

I didn’t assume all healers could remove all debuffs btw, I just said fact. The fastest speed clears prove you don’t need more dispels going out than the correct healer setup is capable of. Does it make life easier for them? Sure! Does that matter? No. The fastest and most efficient way to down a raid boss is to reduce the fight time and stress healers/tanks as much as possible JUST TO the tipping point. The closer you get to that edge, the better.

[Fesz-cenarius]

Again, this is not about what’s possible. This is about what the mindset of the community around raiding 100% absolutely beyond any doubt WILL be. There will be tryhards and fail groups, just like OG vanilla, with the exception that tryhards will be able to be more demanding and exclusive.

Then i guess your choice is clear.

Do you want to be that big, bad wielder of a two handed sword that tunnel focuses on only DPS (while likely ignoring mechanics) or do you want to play a paladin?

[Akaidian-earthen-ring (Akaidian)]

Then i guess your choice is clear.

Do you want to be that big, bad wielder of a two handed sword that tunnel focuses on only DPS (while likely ignoring mechanics) or do you want to play a paladin?

I want the former with yellow glowies and seal system, but I’ll settle for the mundane version available this go around and have fun loling at any and all rets who try to force the issue like theloras or estefan as they sit in mediocre groups riding the only struggle bus they could find that would accept the pathetic excuse of a spec vanilla ret was.