A Taunt won’t fix the issues with paladin tanking,it will help but it won’t be the magic bullet that makes the spec viable.
To “fix” paladin tanking you need the following.
-Making their threat more active instead of relying on being hit.
-There would need to be more paladin specific tanking gear.
-They would need a better mana regen suite of abilities.JoW does not cut it.
-They would need to make redoubt not proc off crits.
Basically they would have to ret-con a heap of raid gear and apply TBC talents/abilities at which point the prot paladin is not “classic”
So here is the thing if a Ret could do 80% of the damage of a rogue, along with being able to heal, bring blessings, and an extra aura, have wipe prevention, lay on hands, also able to cleanse well then why bring the rogue? on top of all that you would also be outdpsing hunters and possibly warlocks.
I remember reckoning procs were pretty lame but I never actually used a “tanking” weapon or normal dps weapon till WOTLK. Not sure how it would work since the actual procs were meaningless beyond another source of seal damage.
When changed to when hit instead of crit it just becomes a small amount of bonus threat, but since weapon swings + seal aren’t a major portion of Prot Paladin threat it doesn’t really add a ton of it. Even in WotLK when we were using proper weapons instead of caster weapons for the added spell damage.
Changing it doesn’t solve any of Prot Paladin’s issues with tanking in Vanilla and it just removes a viable PvP build from the game.
In fact even changing Redoubt to no longer proc when crit wouldn’t solve any issues either, because when it became on hit it wasn’t reliable enough to consider the block chance for uncrushable.
Going purely off theory a prot pally wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world for a raid team to have, you just need to remove crushing blows from the equation.
And the best way to do that is to get them to tank boss adds who can’t crush their targets.
It would be nice if the talk about raid tanks went something like:
Boss A is best with a Druid.
Boss B is best with a Warrior.
Boss C is best with a Paladin.
I guess you could throw Shaman in there somehow.
Instead of:
Warrior, oh, and once in a blue moon Druid.
I don’t care so much about balance (which they tried) as viability in filling roles. However, that means at tier 3, paladins would be the best single target healers and (with a tier set) a competitive MT. And I don’t know if Blizzard would want that as horde don’t have anything unique to them that could do that.
This has more to do with raid encounter design than anything else.
Most raid fights involve a single boss that needs to be tanked, which is what the Warrior is great at.
If we had more adds that needed to be AoE tanked or even a fight where that was the main tank’s job, then we’d see more “Boss C is best with a Paladin”. Same goes for Druids and fights that make use of their large health pool and armour.
Making Prot Paladins competitive MTs in Vanilla’s raid environment would just mean making them good at what Warriors do in addition to everything they can already do, which is not a great place for Warrior tanks to be in. It would be WotLK all over again where Warriors became the worst tanks overall.
Blizzard has already stated they don’t want to change anything about class balance at all in Classic, but talking theoretically if Paladins were to be buffed then you’d need to do something for Shaman too.
then assuming they do the same thing with druids, i stack my raid with 1 mage for AI, 1 Lock for summons, 2 hunters for tranq and stack my raid with druids and rets and have an immortal raid.
yes, the problems with paladin tanking go beyond having a taunt. you would need to completely rebuild the class from the ground up to give them a mana regeneration mechanic of some sort, you would have to add gear to each raid tier for them, etc.
Don’t be obtuse. This is a discussion about Vanilla Warcraft circa 1.12 so there are inherent expectations around what the game will and will not entail so you can bury your head in the sand and pretend that “its their game and they can do whatever they want” or you can maybe grow up and join the actual conversation going on.
just bring seal of fury back, lol, it was in vanilla and it gives tons of tps;
keep JoL heal to count for those how judged it how it was in 1.12.1;
with this they dont even need a taunt for tanking
(still need it to perform game mechanics on some encounters)
reconsider t1 as prot set as it was initialy designed, let it not being forever bis, but good enough to make your steps into bwl;
it should not be a big lose, holy have a lot of better gear options, but prot forced to wear green items with def
how redoubt and reckoning work is a realy bad design but it is not a core problem;
there is only toughness and tps problems ;
(yes it would be better to proc from possible crit, not only the landed one, but that is not the core problem)
also there is no problems with mana, it is the same poor tps problem,
no need of adding any additional mana-consuming abilities,
no need to change prot gameplay;
just see pre 1.9 toolset or correct tps coefficients
there was a joke from vanilla:
-what happens when prot paladin is out of mana?
-nothing
and i know that many paladins will hate me for this words but reckoning was broken OP **it even after nerf of unlimited charges;
it shoud be fixed in some way, for example to be a normaly visiable buff with a short duration (about 10-15sec)
ret needs spellpower flask for dps hardly,
and with all kind of manaconsumables,
yes may be you are right and i just forgot how fast you go oom with powershifting so feral is also very manahungry with this style too;
also i dont remember does ferals benefits from elemental sharpening stones?
absolutely sure that enh and ele should both be a dps options ;
enh should be viable dps for melee group
ele should take his place in caster group;
some ppl here thinks that 30% dps is little gap, and lead to druid/paladin raids;
i strongly disagree with that statement;
300 dps vs 210 dps is a big difference
well it’s not as huge as 300 dps vs 120 dps; but still
that means boss fights would be much longer and harder,
big dps dont solve any raid problem but make many things easier, and make some things ridiculously easy;
also some ppl here too focused on personal dps; forgetting about valuable party/raid buffs or boss debuffs
5 charges. You are forgetting there is a 30 sec. item swap cooldown.
SoFury + JoW solved all mana issues prior to 1.9: 149 mana per swing on average. The problem was that paladins could only reliably tank 1-2 targets and possibly AoE as long as your group downranked their spells. The problem with gear comes from the fact that set gear has more itemization points than non set gear, especially for the warrior sets.
The Judgement gave lots of threat not the seal. The power of the Seal came from it’s ghost strikes that proc on hit effects.
Necessity means off tanks can take over. It’s not that hard.