Ret Paladin the new BM?

Classes Paladin
1

Why is a spec like ret pumping so much dps when it’s a range-warrior mage class? They also have very few skills/buttons to manage. Don’t get me wrong, I love my Ret Paladin as he’s beating everyone on the DPS chart.

People will say they’re not represented on the super high end keys, but if we are honest, 80% of the people that plays Ret don’t go pass 2600-2700.

It just feel it’s wrong that my ret’s weapon 619 and I do as much damage or more than someone with a 626 weapon. I assume, when I get a 626, I’ll be beating people with crafted 636 weapons.

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2

Do what I do: play what you find fun! To heck with the dps meters! Be the last guy alive before the raid wipes!

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3

This man has obviously been blessed by the wisdom of the Holy Light.

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4

Genuinely the correct way to play. I love Paladin lore, Paladin gameplay, and Paladin class fantasy, so I’m going to play a Paladin. If any one of those things gets botched, then it may lower my enjoyment, but having high DPS is not a huge factor in why I play Paladin.

Don’t get me wrong though, I like doing big DPS, it’s fun, but it’s not my why.

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5

Going from a 619 weapon to a 626 weapon is about a 2% dps increase. Even if every class was perfectly balanced in all scenarios, you could still outdps people with a better weapon simply with very slightly better play.

That said, yes, Ret has been called the “BM of melee” now for a while.

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6

I just love these passove agressive posters coming here to insult us “guys why is ret so easy?”

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7

You’re misconstruing the situation.

There’s some principles we know they try to abide for in modern WoW balancing.

First, they try to make all dps specs do about X damage regardless.
The point being that every spec should have the opportunity to achieve the hardest content.

The DPS charts aren’t a perfect tool.
The lowest performing class aren’t really that low.

Now it doesn’t mean there’s never any outliers, there are, but usually it gets ironed out a week or two after RWF ends.
Ret is not an outlier ATM, in fact its average performance is always a bit inflated on raid DPS chart by people dying and triggering Instrument of Retribution.

Now, this specific tier is absolutely PLAGUED by bugs and quality issues that makes the charts very unreliable as well.

Secondly, in relation to the first point, they don’t really “care” where specs generally end up on this chart as long as it’s within their parameters.

So if your spec happens to not have any bugs, within their DPS range and there’s nothing really wrong anywhere else. they won’t touch it much.
Ultimately this is may be the best situation to end up in because they are often horrible at balancing stuff right on the first go and we end up with situations like Fury warriors.

Thirdly, the different specs are supposed to offer different type of gameplay and it include complexity in that, for better or worse.

Personally, I think this is fine up to a certain degree but if I need to become a pianist to play a spec then I think it becomes a problem.

PERSONAL OPINION
For abilities that you will use as a rotation in combat and semi-routinely (stuns, kick, etc)
I think a good balance to strive for, is to aim for around the same amount of buttons a modern console controller has, and by that I mean with modifiers so around 20 key binds.
(I’m not playing with a controller, it’s just that I feel the console format really evolved throughout the years and I feel their perspective has some value in term of mass appeal).

Finally, if anything, Ret current gameplay design should be an example to strive for rather than a target to shot at.

They don’t play correctly then.
Beside, I get the weapon is a big deal but there’s also like 14-15 other equipment slot beside the weapon soo…
This might be your anecdotal experience but nothing more.

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8

How come it’s always warriors whining about ret? I have a fury warrior too. It’s just as simple without that pesky group utility to worry about.

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9

It’s different, Warrior group utility will center around disrupting the enemy group rather than directly helping yours.
It goes mostly outward (ennemies) instead of inward (friends).

Intimidating Shout
Shockwave
Piercing Howl
Thunder Clap slow
Spear

These all serve as controlling or hindering the enemies mouvement/positioning.

I’m not saying they take all these or that its even currently useful, but it’s a different approach to group utility.

They have rallying cry which can always have use as well as an inward utility.

10

So what are the ret dps and utility skills? You say they are few so you can list them easily.
Also list warrior (pick arms or fury idk) dps and utility skills.

So we can properly assess and see if there is any merit to your statement.

11

it is easy tho

that being said, warrior is also easy

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12

What isn’t easy?
You guys act like X spec/class takes a degree in chemistry and rocket science to play.

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13

i mean its true x spec and class are all easy

but frankly while sin has energy management and ww has the difficulty of every gcd being different.

ret paladin is frankly press anything that glows. hopo is even a resource that matters cause we can overcap by tons and still do competative damage, theres no skill ceiling because generators and spenders do simliar amount of damage, theres people who want hol to be nerfed to 3 hopo cause 5 hopo is to “hard” to get to

ret is just melee bm and warrior isnt close behind

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If that’s true why are there people parsing green and blue regularly? Since they’re pressing anything, it should work, right… right??

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because parses are reliant on ilvl and boss timers and other factors. you can switch to ilvl parses and see a more solid metric but even thats sus cause someone can take out a neck or rings to put their ilvl metric lower

also theres actually horrible players out there. from some of the logs i reviewed, some people legit wait 3 gcds before pressing es after pressing wake of ashes.

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Cope-out, you can see based on ilvl as well.

Well if they take their neck or rings to be a few ilvls lower, they’ll just parse higher for THAT ilvl if they’re any good, so it’s irrelevant.

Those players would also do horrible on any other spec out there.

You know you can put a % on the difference between the bottom and top for each of the specs here, to see how hard they are?
Mythic:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/38#
Heroic:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/38#difficulty=4
Normal:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/38#difficulty=3

You can look at that and see the difference between spec difficulty, the lower and the upper floors for each spec, as well as their limitations/potential.

The fact that no spec out there is DOUBLE lower or higher than any other, means that this difficulty narrative is totally bullcrap. If any were 2 times to play as hard as any other, you could see that directly there, but you can’t because no spec is double as hard as any other, the % difference between them is negligible.

17

again, some ret players are just absolutely terrible on a spec thats easy. that doesnt mean the spec has a skill ceiling. you also have to think about ret population size which means more finger challenged people are playing the spec

your taking this way to seriously for a spec that has no resource that matters, all cd sync together, no main cd cause it was baked to wake of ashes, generators being as strong as spenders so people dont feel “bad” about not using spenders often, templar only skill ceiling based on uptime being gutted to 100% uptime all the time.

the only skill ceiling ret has is its utility usage

also looking at all percentiles is a meme, compare 20% and 95% and you’ll see ret hanging around in the top for all bosses. hm much diffiulty

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18

You’ve cracked the code, OP.

WoW is not a hard game.

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I’m saying that if a monkey with 80 IQ can play the ret spec well, then a monkey with 85 IQ can play the hardest spec in the game well.

Meaning that for a monkey with 90 IQ it’s IRRELEVANT what spec it’s playing, that monkey plays all the specs well, so it doesn’t mean crap.
For anyone that’s not a complete moron each wow spec is easy.
Every time someone says X spec is HARD, i look at them as if they’re an absolute idiot and i cringe at that so hard.

Ret is 5th place for BOTH 20% and 95% on MYTHIC.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/38#dataset=95
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/38#dataset=20

So ret is consistently the same, where is your difficulty difference here?
You can look at heroic and see ret DROP in rankings at 20th percentile versus the 95th.
So ret is harder to play at lower lvls? Or are there more “difficult” specs?

If you were to put ret at 100% “difficulty”, what would you rate the MOST difficult spec out there?
You’ll embarrass yourself by saying 115%? because the difference is so little it’s embarrassing to talk about. It’s like the difference between peeling an apple and peeling a kiwi, you’d laugh at people talking about that difficulty difference, right?
Because obviously you can’t say 200%, that would mean double and there is no DATA to support that dumb statement that i cooked up.

20

your getting giga aggressive for 0 reason

a spec shouldnt be performing at top at 20% and 90% percentiles that shows theres a huge issue with the skill ceiling of the spec

im not saying turn the spec into “havoc” or “outlaw” in terms of “difficulty” im saying that ret is the easiest melee and its not good for the specs overal health. the spec has to be in a constant state of overtuned because there is no skill ceiling to separate the 20% and the 90%

i want the spec to have some sort of resource management. i dont want to get whispers saying my spec is ez mode cause a brainless ape can top the charts in pugs, i dont wnat to be nerfed cause said brainless lfr larry can top charts with 0 rotational effort

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