Ret Paladin the new BM?

Classes Paladin
21

The opposite, it shows that the spec is consistent with its tuning, since it has the same exact ranking.

Havoc?
You can see that the spec has higher ranking at lower difficulty:
12th at 95%
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/38#dataset=95
11th at 20%
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/38#dataset=20
It ROSE on the rankings at lower %, meaning it’s easier to play relatively to it performing at the max.

Ret is 5th on both 95 and 20%.

6th place on BOTH
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/38#dataset=95
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/38#dataset=20

If you want to see easy specs, look at ASSASSINATION, jumping from 10th place at 95 to 1st place at 20.

If you want to see how ret handles at lower lvls, we can do that too:
Heroic 95 ret is 6th
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/38#dataset=95&difficulty=4
20% and it’s 8th… oh look, some specs have gone ahead of ret, MONKEY specs?

Because that’s what we can extract here, ret is doing more poorly at lower skill lvls than other specs.

If you want to see something messed up, you can look at 20% on Normal, where the absolute most deaths occur and boost ret.
A ret with bad team mates will rise on the ranking, and even that isn’t enough.
95% ret is 14th
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/38#dataset=95&difficulty=3
20% and ret is 10th, the only reason it rose is because it’s fed by their equally bad team mates deaths.

So tell me again, how tf is ret such an easy spec, but the 2 specs you listed as “hard” are showing that they are actually easier to handle at higher difficulties for more skilled players?
Doesn’t that mean that the more skilled a player is, the less “difficulty” means in its usage? Because it’s exactly the difference between peeling an apple and a kiwi.

How tf are your specs listed “difficult”? Were the specs you listed actually harder to do a proper rotation/priority? Because the logs don’t support that claim, just the opposite.

And i’m FINE with that, they can add:

  • Seraphim but make it 1 minute, no 45 sec bullcrap
  • Inquisition
  • delete Crusading Strikes
  • nerf generators dmg and make builders have an extra bang for your buck
  • add more crap, but make it optional for the monkeys

What i’m not fine with is acting that the specs in this game have a WIDE skill difference, when everything shows that they are made for monkeys to play with and do well.

22

I am so glad I had that individual ignored for so long I aint readimg all of that.

It feels like we are being brigaded everyday theres a new “ret is so damn braindead spec guyz wow!”

2 Likes
23

I don’t get the Ret hate to be honest. It’s VERY RARELY even been in anything close to what you can call a “good place.” The first two expansions Ret wasn’t even a serious spec. Since Wrath it’s had ups and mostly downs, and I don’t believe in the hybrid tax at all.

You’re also not going to be nearly as effective in mid range, like yeah you can drop some bombs out of melee, but you won’t be quite as effective. Not really a good criticism on your part here.

I also find the “high level” part of your argument to be suspect, because that’s how the health of specs are generally judged. Why are you then, now, deciding to exclude that? If it’s not doing well at high levels in PVP, M+, and Mythic raiding, then it’s just a class that has a higher than average skill floor; but let’s be honest, most/all of the specs in this game (as long as they aren’t broken) aren’t even hard to play at a decent level.

Like this really is just a hater post lol, let the Rets have their moment.

5 Likes
24

Name me a spec that has been given more handholding by blizzard in tww than ret. So much of the kit is just autopiloted. Auto wings, auto freedom, auto wog emergency heal, auto sac (with a dps buff because rets still werent using it lmao). The list goes on
More mobile than other classes now. More baseline hp than most dps. Entire kit is ranged (aside from melee autos) because avoiding punishing melee mechanics is asking a bit much from the most played spec in the game right now
I swear even with how jacked the spec is, the majority of people who play it still drool on their keyboards and dont have intercession keybound or even on their hotbar. They’re still an instant decline from me since i dont want to brick my keys

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26

Post with your main, coward

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27

Or what? What you gonna do about it? Lel

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28

How about you ask for buffs on you main before gaslighting nerfs to us rets we are far from OP.

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29

“You’re gaslighting me!”
Cry more

30

Look ppl are complaining about ret pallies for the recent time whereby for pretty much since WOTLK, for most part, we were NEVER top. That’s close to a decade worth of time, alongside ferals.

It was only after the rework in DF that things started looking up for the 1st time in the long time.

6 Likes
31

Pity him.

Imagine posting on throwaways just to speak your own mind.
His life must blow.

He’s aware what he just said is pure BS, that’s why he can’t bring himself to own it, he knows he’d look bad so he doesn’t want to “taint” his main character.

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32

If Ret is so easy and overpowered, you’d think you would seek them out.

34

Post on your main cowardly warrior! You reek of someone who just earned the entered the arena achievement. Go spin to win on some murlocks!

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35

Sorry, I was busy pumpin as a Ret. I love this range melee.

36

Why people say this or that about a class, who cares play what you like if you dont like it or think its to easy play something you think is harder but from my experience in 20 years of playing all classes are not that difficult other then maybe Shadow Priest that use to be the hardest rotation but not even sure on that anymore. But all classes have around 5-7 abilitys constantly used then others that are sometimes used according to what is going on around. Play what you like and if you dont like it Shut the Hell Up and play your so called hard class lol.

37

It’s resentment and entitlement.

They extract some twisted sense of superiority from playing something they perceive (rightfully so or not) to be harder.

They feel like the difficulty they have executing their rotation is basis for increased DPS over another spec who appears to get it easier.

The problem with this is that it runs contrary to the balance philosophy where every spec is balanced to do roughly X amount of damage.
Which in turn is expected to achieve the hardest form of content.

Personally, I think it’s somewhat healthy to expect this within your OWN spec but that shouldn’t be expected between spec if we want all spec to be viable at all times.

1 Like
38

I think the OP is trolling a bit, but I want to give my two cents because this discussion pops up a lot and I find it interesting.

Ret has a low skill floor, which I think is a good thing because it welcomes new players to the class. Ideally every spec would have a lowish skill floor.

I don’t agree with people (including some paladins themselves) that say the skill ceiling is terribly low. It’s easy to waste holy power from Divine Resonance + Crusading Strikes, especially if you don’t track these, which I’m sure players new to the spec don’t. If you waste holy power, it’s possible to run into empty gcds. If you waste holy power, you might get your Radiant Glory proc after Wings has already ended. And that’s not to mention that people seem to struggle with Hammer of Light, calling it clunky, but really it’s a skill check.

If you want to make Ret more skillful, the answer isn’t to add more empty gcds when the rotation gets screwed up. That just slows things down. Hammer of Wrath should be added to the AoE rotation and be at the top of the rotation in general. If you mess up, the penalty should be that you gotta use your filler generator more.

Also, I’d argue Ret utility is harder to use than other specs. I use my arena macros in m+ and let me tell you, my LoH’s are on point. If you play with a friend that tanks, you can coordinate Sacs and BoPs in cool ways. Ret can spot heal and has to actually dispel stuff, and there are little tricks like using Freedom on the last boss of Necrotic Wake before he finishes his root cast.

Compare that to rogue or warrior? Theirs are a joke to use. Hurrdeedurr, I’m a rogue and everything I touch attacks / casts 15% slower, and a rotational ability silences everything and reduces damage by another 15%. Warriors, well, I actually feel bad for them — they don’t have enough utility to begin with.

39

True, but people don’t calculate how much that Holy Power means.
What’s also true is that sometimes you can’t just spend your extra HP to not overcap it, because it wastes time and delays your cooldowns, so it’s actually more skillful to overcap when needed.
The real skill is to know when to do what.

Also a lot of people don’t track the Judgment debuff and Blessing of Dawn, they both have to be on the target before using Hammer of Light, be it the one after Wake or the one from Light’s Deliverance stacks.
I made weak auras to track both easily and i can tell you that in half the cases they won’t align and you have to wait a bit for Judgment for the debuff or throw in BoJ to overcap but gain Blessing of Dawn. Not much of a problem at the start of the rotation if you do it properly, but when it’s later during the fight it can happen to not have one or both.

Yes and also can happen to get HoL proc if you used too many finishers before you get another Wake, when that happens it means the HoL proc won’t be buffed by wings.

It was clunky when it wasn’t affected by haste, now it’s almost fine. I’m saying almost because the animation is still kind of slow and the dmg comes in later, probably a 0.5 sec delay that makes it still feel off.

They’ll probably add a HoW set bonus next tier so we use it in AOE more often. :joy:

40

Good point! I think overcapping offends some paladins on a spiritual level or something, that they’d rather have a slowed-down rotation than ever overcap.

It’s true that HoL has been called clunky for other reasons, some of them very legitimate. Personally I’m fine with the delayed animation, but I see why it throws people off.

The devs keep skirting around the HoW problem. I think there was a set bonus when I was taking a break that had it apply the Judgment debuff? HoW is obviously not supposed to be at the bottom of the rotation, and removing a button from the AoE rotation oversimplifies it.

41

I think it was 2nd set last expac.

A good set bonus for the 2nd set this expac would look like (simple mechanics but it’s just 2nd set):

  • Hammer of Wrath applies and increases Judgment Debuff by 15%
  • Hammer of Wrath hits an additional 4 targets for 80% of its damage on each hit and applies Expurgation.

That would push it to be the top of the priority whenever we get a proc and ofc during wings. Maximizing its limited usage would be a skill tactic to check, because now we ignore it in AOE and it doesn’t really matter until below the bonus thresholds even in ST that much.

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42

Higher ilvl doesn’t mean they’re playing optimally.

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