Can I get some honest advice as to how effective/fun Ret will be to play in TBC in both Arena and BGs? I know they aren’t a super PvP class like Rogues are, but are they so far down the tier list that it won’t even be fun? I don’t need it to be amazingly good, just good enough to be playable.
Also, are they really only viable in 2s if paired up with a Shaman?
Yep, sorry m8 :(.
In 2’s they really only work well with a resto shaman, and winning is heavily reliant on windfury + SoC proc for massive RNG burst.
In BG’s, rets are extremely fun. You have just enough utility to make some good plays (HoJ, freedom, rep, etc), and with resil gear and armor you can /laugh at all the rogues we’ll be seeing in TBC.
My main is going to be feral but I leveled a ret just because of how fun they are to play in BG’s.
Well I can live with getting stomped in Arena as long as I can enjoy BGs and/or Dueling. The wife is likely to be an RDruid and that’s what would be my likely 2s partner.
Great for bgs, you’ll have to be a very high skill level player to be successful with one in the arena. And have some degree of luck. Upside is you almost always have fast games
Ret/resto druid is a strange comp. You could probably win vs double DPS comps, but against priest/rogue or resto/warrior you’ll more than likely get stomped. You don’t have a slow or an MS, and lack of CC to keep them off your wife.
Paired with a mage they murder any mage/rogue and can do some sick CC chains but will have some serious issues with any team that has a lock.
So how well does Ret stack up with the other 2 healers in 2s, Priest/Holy Paladin?
It’s pretty difficult against other healer matchups, they’ll usually fall behind due to not MS. Usually kills are gotten through CC chains/burst phases and priest can pull out some pocket damage but usually not enough without a healing debuff.
…with that said, Ret/Rogue is also a thing, but they overlap both sap and stun CC.
Not sure I understand the question. You mean playing ret and attempting to kill a Priest/holy paladin? If thats the case, it won’t happen. None of the 3 melee hybrids (feral, ret, enhance) can effectively kill a pure healer without assistance. Without an MS, priests are near immortal. You may be able to burst a druid if you catch a HoJ in caster form while barkskin is on CD. Don’t even bother trying to kill a holy paladin. They’re pure tanks and you have a one minute CD stun to stop it from healing. Won’t happen, they’ll probably kill you instead in a 1v1 scenario.
Sorry let me clarify, I worded that weird haha. How well does Ret pair with Holy Paladin or Disc Priest in 2s?
Be prepared to be destroyed.
Between dispells/devour magic from locks and mage spell steal you guys will be screwed.
Ret and holy paladin would be a no go. It’d be a long drawn out fight with you losing. Either you’d go OOM (as the ret) or your holy pally would get locked down after he bubbles and die. You’re also extremely susceptible to mana burns. Holy pallies overall are pretty trash in arena. Would not recommend.
Ret/disc priest would be better, but not by much. Your priest would basically have to carry the match, mana burning the healer on the enemy team when he could, providing additional DPS all while trying to keep himself alive. Realistically neither of these would get you very far.
Your problem here isn’t the healer you choose, its the ret. I’d recommend going warrior instead, and it would get you much further regardless of healer.
Don’t be discouraged here. Rets in particular have a very unique anti-stealing toolkit. You know santified seals that give your seals 100% dispel resist? Don’t get 3/3. Get 2 out of 3. It gives 66% resist, then pick up stoicism for 30% more.
Basically instead of ignoring the seals their dispels will constantly try to dispel the seal, causing mana to just get wasted many times. Its also funny if you try to seal twist during the dispel spam, with the new changes it’ll have double seals up.
That’s a little disappointing. The Ret Paladin + Holy Paladin goes over so well in my head. Double auras, seals that are getting refreshed, bubbles, heals, HoJ. But then again I’m an amateur and don’t really understand yet what makes things go well together 
The primary thing holding back most rets is that they need to actively support the team they are on while they are playing it. Playing offensively and defensively with allies drastically increases the skill cap.
Most rets just zug into things and worry about their own survival and it compounds the weaknesses they have rather than playing off their strengths.
In arena they’re alright. Solid 5/10. Not meta, but not worthless. Fairly gear dependent. But by the time S3 rolls around and you get that Vengeance Sword and a real nice spell power on-use trinket you can absolutely 100-0 someone in a hammer of justice with stacks and wings.
Obviously Ret/Rshaman is the predominate Ret 2vs2 team but don’t sleep on Ret/Spriest, Ret Disc Priest and Ret/Dreamstate Druid.
I played Ret/Restokin on Endless a while back and it was extremely powerful. The Ret can dispel magic and keep roots / snares off of himself and I can dispel curses and poisons. The Ret could put Sacrifice on me during hardswaps or all-out BoP me if I’m caught with my pants down. The CC was highly effective too, with Hammer of Justice and Repentance both being instant cast and off DR with Cyclone. We could easily force trinkets early and then Repentance --> 2x Cyclone with wings, one-use trinkets and me pounding 1200 damage wraths with Moonfire and Insect swarm ticking. We could do about 15-20k damage together in the ~10-15sec CC chain. Very little survived. And, if we had to pull back, it’s a great comp defensively. We can pillar and cleanse ourselves all day. Ret’s biggest downfall was mana efficiency. And Mage/Disc comps farmed us. Other than that we were quite competitive.
In BG anything is viable. It doesn’t matter. You’re going to feel very immobile compared to a lot of classes and your damage is going to feel low outside of your burst windows, but if you use your utility right you’re a great asset to the team. Embrace the hybrid nature of Ret and you’ll be fine.
Edit: As a disclaimer, I played it with T5/S3 gear. In Season 1 Ret/Dreamstate might have damage issues.
Sadly ret pally has same issue enhc shaman has. Very little comps that work. However is a blast to play in BGs. Honestly I felt TBC was the best time for BGs for most classes. Arena is a different story.
Enhance is in a much better spot than Ret because of totems and blood lust. Turbocleave (Arms/Enhance/Rdruid) just handily won a private server arena tournament back around January. Giving the Arms warrior lust and windfury totem, contributing a ranged 5sec interrupt and being able to verily purge-spam down a kill target during a “go” is invaluable. And things like well timed grounding / tremor and some clutch offheals during a healer-stun or something and you’ve got a really strong comp.
Ret has nothing in 3vs3 I’d describe as “really strong”. Ret/Arms/Rshaman is probably Ret’s best 3vs3 option and it’s way behind Turbocleave.
Was never saying it can’t be done. I know the limits of both classes.(played them both as mains for years) It’s a little more difficult than the standard easy ones.
For both pally and shaman you have to know what you’re doing. You’re not a pure dps you’re a support. Most people never understand this.