cries in outlaw
Keep ret buffed, other dps classes should fall in line behind their DPS leader, or go healing XD
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But he was using it as an example for AoE.
He wasnât talking ST.
Thatâs still the opening for AoE, itâs accurate.
Nobody uses FR (see what I said to Turalyon)
Like, the CD (ES) is there, itâll be available every wake.
Thereâs no reason not to use it even if youâre just gonna DS the whole time.
So in a pack, thatâs pretty much the opening.
After that you Wake, make sure you have Dusk/Dawn up and you HoL the ES target.
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That was my first thought. âOh, man. You should play ret.â
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Sorry but no. ES is single target. It has jo AoE implications. Sure there is targets that must die fast sometimes, but that is a seperate topic then AoE.
I wouldnât say nobody doesâŚ
I know with herald there is AoE benefit for not taking rg.
Did you come back and repost this on a ret pally alt after your dk post went down in flames?
Whether it has AoE implication or not is beside the point.
Everyone know it doesnât deal AoE damage.
The question is:
Is it part of you opener in AoE situation?
And the answers is YES.
Itâs an observation, thatâs litteraly what we do in AoE, when you start a pack in M+ you use ES in your opener because this is where youâll get the most out of it.
Itâs a yes or no situation.
Thereâs no grey area.
Watch Rets that stream keys, theyâll all use it in their AoE opener.
It has some burst value in M+ difficulties where the mobs die before the end of the 8 sec debuff it does, thatâs itâŚ
If you want to âstealâ the damage opportunity from others, which ironically might be why this clown started this thread.
Incidentally, its in those situations that ES would also be useless because the mob would die before it can deal its damage.
So the only time FR find some relevance is when ES LITERALLY cannot do itâs damage because mobs dies faster than 8sec.
Otherwise thereâs no discernible advantage in its use on AoE for the reasons I stated.
On 8 target patchwerk itâs a 0,7% increase for me over ES, thatâs nothing.
It goes up to 3% if I use RG Might, but then I loose even more ST damage from 6% to 8%.
Bosses need to die in M+ as well, if itâs a toss up on AoE and an increase in ST, ES will be in the AoE rotation end of story.
As soon as you enter either raid or M+ 8-9 and above you use ES if you care at all about timing the keys.
you smelly 1400 io flavor of the month ret rollers need to find a new class sub to troll, no one cares
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Does the abomination die after a few seconds/minutes?
Yes. It applies diseases and festering wounds and in general does a lot of pet dps, then dies.
Ret is streamlined, which is why a lot of people find it fun. I think it could be a little more complex, for example why isnât HoW part of the AoE rotation, but more than that, other specs should be streamlined. I havenât touched Unholy in a long time, but I wouldnât be surprised if a couple of its abilities could be trimmed.
People like it, but itâs not overpowered. Itâs part of the meta, but falls off in higher keys. Itâs not an outlier like Prot, Enhance, or Disc. And yea, there are bad specs that need buffs.
I was an FR enjoyer as well, but according to sims it doesnât actually increase AoE damage by much, while skipping ES is a big ST loss. ES is useful on trash packs because thereâs usually a priority target to use it on, and since it doesnât deal upfront damage youâre a gcd behind the tank and therefore less likely to grab aggro at the start of a pull.
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No. It is not apart of it as you can do as much if not more AoE damage without using it or replacing it. ES only covers kill target which is a seperate topic. Which is âbesides the pointâ
Realistically it is worth using ES against trash:
- Mobs arenât instantly gathered for Judgment and especially BoJ to hit all of them.
- There is a real threat of grabbing aggro, even just with these, while the tank is gathering.
- Thereâs usually a mob with like twice the health of other mobs. You can save time by sacrificing a little AoE damage for ST.
At then end of an AoE pack, your damage will be less for having not used ES, 100% of the times.
No ability for its GCD use can deal the amount of damage ES will deal at the end of it just for being pressed at the start.
ES, whether you like it or not, is part of the AoE opener and thatâs a fact.
Likewise, FR would be part of the ST opener if it were to be taken instead of ES.
âNo ability for its GCD use can deal the amount of damage ES will deal at the end of it just for being pressed at the start.â If BoJ can somehow connect with 5 mobs on your first gcd, Iâm fairly certain it will deal more damage than ES. Remember that youâre spamming DS into ES in these situations, not TV.
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Got a high parse to see how much ES dmg is over an instance? any over 10+ is fine.
I donât know about âhigh parseâ but for my character*
And some keys might skew the result, Mist comes to mind with the first boss amp and stonevault as well with the rock boss on which you can carry the shield damage over to his health with ES.
Iâll check if I had logs active recently.
ES average hit on a Dawnbreaker 10 is 2.5 million (I did it yesterday)
BoJ averages 381k and BoV averages 314k
381 + 314*5 (best case)= 1.956 million
No GCD will have more damage than ES, given you play it properly.
Itâs 20% of ALL your damage, and we have a butt load of auto-cast abilities that just hits left and right from using other stuff.
Even if empyrean hammers donât hit the main target, if they crit they actually do more damage to your main target than if they hit it straight.
If you donât ES in your AoE rotation youâre losing damageâŚ
Remember that everything you do is also amped by crusade.
Even if you wouldnât use ES, you wouldnât replace it by BoJ it would go to the next priority which is Wake.
Otherwise you just waste additional HP for no reason other than putting BoJ on CD which wonât matter because it reset like crazy in AoE because of Blessed champion.
Judge - Wake - HoL -DT (if available) - DS (if 5HP)- BoJ and then rotated normaly.
I know WoWhead opener is to litteraly waste every HP you can but I was engrained against it.
So maybe even my current ES numbers should be stronger because it should have an HoL with 2 stack of dawn, idk. 
Point is ES is part of AoE rotation/openerâŚ
And you make a good case for it as well.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/rgzQJCFHn2wv9tZ1#fight=1&type=damage-done&source=4
Here you go, it was running yesterday
And on trash itâs less than 2.5 millions and more around 2.2 millions
Still above best case BoJ.
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why are yall saying es isnt ran in keys. its very clearly is in casual to high keys due to how long specific prio targets last. keys are not just âall aoeâ theres bosses and other important targets that need to die asap.
you could run fr but theres really not much of a aoe gain to compared to the massive st gain es gives in keys which was something ret struggled with all of df
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