this class is complete junk, we don’t even bring them anymore’ and then I think we should take a look at it”
But the class isn’t complete junk, prot is the best tank in the game and holy is the best healer in the game. Just respec :^)
Ret just needs to push buttons harder. That is all it takes with pretty much any DPS class.
DPS is simple rotation nothing else.
Honestly at this point…
Why aren’t we considering fully distinct roles within a class individual classes? Seeing as how the strengths of prot or holy don’t affect ret at all, or that a prot warrior isn’t a fury warrior, a shadow priest doesn’t do what a disc priest does, etc. Seriously, talking about other ROLES within a class do doesn’t matter. And the trolls that want to keep talking about it… yeah you’re a joke. You just are.
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Blizzard has not given ret any sort of truly worthwhile “utility class abilities” or solid DPS since the game launched in Vanilla. Vanilla ret was useless. TBC ret had decent single target dps only because of seal twisting (which was originally not even an intentional ret ability, so if Blizz had changed it to what they intended, TBC ret would have been useless as well - the only reason they left it in game for classic was because it was an easy call with their attempt at “no changes” in the classic games), and now here we are in WOTLK still not doing well with what blizzard has intentionally given us. It’s really not that much to ask for with how Blizzard has treated the spec for 3 expansions in a row.
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to be perfectly honest I can’t imagine anyone is that concerned about ret in pvp when we have ele shaman, destro locks, and hpals easily dominating every tournament lol
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ah yes, ele sham and destro locks, the “i press 1 button and half of your hp is gone” specs
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ele/destro is fun but gets run down by warrior teams
Ultimately I don’t really care if Ret were to get buffed or not, I’m a healer and actively dislike raiding as dps. This bothers me a bit though…I mean why is that not fine? Why do you feel entitled to out-dps a Frost mage or Subtlety rogue? I think what your other specs are capable of does and should matter. Like it doesn’t sound unreasonable to me that a class only capable of dps should be consistently higher dps in all specs than the dps spec of a class than can flex out to heal or tank, especially in the age of dual spec, and even more especially when that classes tank and heal specs are absurdly powerful. I think the case could be made that Ret should viable and no more. But Ret dps should be viable and if thats all you are asking for I support you, but it doesn’t sound like thats what you want.
Because they don’t want to tank or heal? Their raid doesn’t need those maybe? Maybe they WERE a healer or tank and asked to respec if they wanted to keep raiding because those slots were full?
Again, comparing other ROLES within a class is absolutely worthless.
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There raid clearly doesnt need a ret paladin either, based off the comments made.
Reroll. Complaining because youtube told us Ret would be amazing, and being mad it’s not as great as people remembered isn’t a balancing problem, it’s a personal problem.
Fair but doesn’t answer my question of why Ret should parse higher than any spec of mage. And lots of dps specs to choose from.
Lots of dps specs to choose from.
Lots of dps specs to choose from.
Unless you reject the notion that having one class possess the ability to have multiple ROLES is worthless. I’d say that you do and I think that’d being selfish.
because frost and subtlety are pvp specs, they are not viable pve specs, and honestly neither is ret anymore, this is a stupid argument. of course ret should out dps them
we’re talking about the literal bottom of the barrel here, hardly above tanks.
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frost mage and sub rogue are literal pvp specs. their toolkit is designed to handle pvp scenarios and actively do not work on pve encounters.
yet they still perform better in pve scenarios than ret does. who has no such restrictions on their toolkit
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So your assertion is that it’s perfectly fine for a spec to be, essentially, worthless provided the other ROLE options are fine, so long as someone just… creates a new character and levels a completely different class, gears it out, grinds what needs grinding, etc.
I disagree with this assertion. As do many, many other people.
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sub and frost are some of the worst dps specs of pure dps classes that are primarily meant for pvp, as a multi role class, I don’t think it’s entitled to want to perform at a medium level by comparison. it sounds like we don’t disagree on that.
The ability to flex out to a healer or tank is not as great as you think it is and generally works in the opposite way. The raid no longer needs an extra tank or healer and they can swap to ret. making bringing another one even less valuable.
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You’re gonna dig yourself into a hole here with the “well you have other viable specs” argument. Truth of the matter is, good guilds are maybe 3 healing and doing 1 tank + 1 OT swaps. There’s not really a place for a ret to flex in those positions.
Pally is such a fun class because of the cool things they bring to the raid and people want to play it, but they also don’t want to be a hamper to the team. When the 4/25 of those slots are already accounted for, what is the pally player supposed to do when they can barely outdps a tank? You’re telling people that enjoy playing a certain class to “just reroll” and you are actively ignoring the points made by OGB… The class is balanced on a game state that DOESN’T EXIST YET; whereas all the other classes have nearly unaffected scaling hits from the latest patch. No one is asking them to be broken like UH dks, just VIABLE.
Regardless, all of this traffic on this thread has me igniting some hopium that a blizzard community lead will see it 
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you are damn wrong, back in the days in classic wotlk retri was a solid dps spec. the problem with balancing is clear and we are tuned around an op tier bonus in icc. if you dont understand that it’s your personal problem
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Prot pal is never a guaranteed slot due to the nature of there really only being 2 tanks usually. Most raids will only run ONE hpal, max two. Most raids will even run more than 2 paladins alot of the times for blessings too. Also, aura mastery chaining is no joke.
3% crit debuff is brought by sin rogues and ele sham. The former will just swap to combat anyways in T8 while the latter will retire totem of wrath in T8 to focus on more fire totem damage.
The 3% damage aura is brought by arcane mages and BM hunters. The former will swap to fire in T8, and anyone who plays BM hunter in raids at any phase is just trolling.
Theres always a room for at least one ret, maybe two. If ur not invited, its cuz a better ret is. In which case its a skill issue.
Sure, whatever you say loser.
Your quote.
They said class not an individual spec or talent tree.
Plenty paladins are not being pushed out and are well represented in end game activity.
Paladins as a class are not junk.
Just let it be, Blizzard.
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in the context of dealing damage paladins are junk, as a class they are being pushed out of the dps role.
got any other brain busters?
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