Ret pal discussion

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
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Hello, brothers and sisters of the Light!

We are having a hard time. At least, I am. Being a ret pal, I rarely find myself in the top 10 dps in raids. I could reroll rogue or warrior to destroy the dps meter, but I really enjoy playing this class/spec. There is something very satisfying dealing those bigs crits from a slow 2H weapon (currently using The Unstoppable Force), while also being that guy with so much tools to support a group. Off course, I want to maximize my toon and need your assistance to do so.

I’ve been trying hard to get the pre-raid bis items, as I hit 60 3 weeks ago and raiding in MC since. As of right now, I’m at 8% hit (5% on items and 3% with mace spec). The pre-raid bis items I do not have, I will probably never get, as some are rather hard to gain (e.g: Hand of justice and SGC). I don’t think I can really hope to ever get those without farming them every day, 5x a day.

I noticed that my dps is mostly relying on getting a crit very early in a boss fight. Somehow, if I get a crit early on, it snowballs and I get several more crits in a row. Fights where I don’t get a crit in the first 10 seconds of I fight, I will never be able to get back on my feet and compete with other dps. Currently, I’m sitting at 24.97% unbuffed.

My questions:

1- Do you feel like I should get even more crit from gear, perhaps at the expanse of strength?
2- Do you believe The Unstoppable Force is a good pre-raid weapon?
3- Should I change my weapon for an Obsidian Edged Blade? It’s got a very slight dps increase, with 42 strength instead of 19, while losing 2% crit.
4- What do you think of an hybrid ret-holy spec? I noticed that my dps is on average 75-80% coming from AP, while the reminder is spell damage. This means there is some improvement that can be made to my spell dmg output. As the judgement set allows for stats that gives decent strength, bonus SP, int and spirit and access to a bonus to the damage dealt by judgment, it seems like a set of items a ret pal might want to get. Of course, that would also mean a huge loss of crit chance, as there is none at all on those pieces.

Thank you all for your precious input!

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Paladins are not a dps class. You’ll never match one of the actual dps classes, no matter what you do, if they put anywhere near the effort that you have to put in. Once you accept that, then you can move forward and just try to have fun.

The question you should ask yourself is What is your goal?

Are you trying to maximize your dps, or are you trying to maximize your raid utility? These are mutually exclusive because the play style required for them is different.

If you want to maximize your Ret raid utility, you’ll build spell power and int, then mostly refresh judgements, spot heal, and primarily mash cleanse. Melee when none of the above are needed.

If you want to maximize your dps, be prepared to alienate lots of warriors because you need their gear. Whichever party you get placed in will probably also be salty that they got the ret noob running Sanc aura, so it’s like they have no Paladin at all.

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Get your guild to build you a Nightfall so you can at least buff the casters in the group

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Respec holy then.

If you insist on playing ret you’ll have to accept the lower DPS that comes with it.

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play what’s fun.

if you’re playing to parse over other melee, it just won’t happen though. If you’re fine with that, play ret - enjoy it.

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I do accept it. I made it clear in my original post. What I want is to make the most out of this spec.

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Best of luck. Personally I’d rather play a spec that’s not a liability to the raid. But that’s just me.

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Get your crit upto 23% unbuffed and 30% buffed in raid. You want to be able on every 3rd hit to activate vengence this should keep it up at all times or mostly all times. Also get crusader on your 2 hander.

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a paladi in full game bis and every single consumable and perfect play will do around 25% of what a bad fury warrior can do

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Consumables are your friends.

The issue with ret (one of many) is that our damage is split between physical and spell almost evenly, and there just aren’t many pieces of gear itemized for that.

Arcane elixirs boost command procs and consecration ticks

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And your point? If he and his guild is okay with him going ret. Who are you to say that’s wrong? And a good ret in mc should be pushing 300+ dps or more so not getting your hate, unless your one of those holies pigioned holed by there guild to be heal bots and your jealous he gets to dps?

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Did you ever stack sp dmg?

Some weapons proc 1 for 1 sp dmg.
And you can increase the proc chance.
So think of getting it up and the procs can crit.

Cons does stack 1/3 of sp dmg, hammer of wrath with150 sp dmg crits at 1.2k to 1.4k damage.

Much more abilities stack sp dmg.

Example hand of rag is 1 for 1 sp dmg. So, think if you crit it hits 1k+ if you get sp dmg up to 300+ add that to the proc.
Procs at 25%

Spell pen waiting to test.

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Spell power scaling weapon procs was largely removed in vanilla, and classic by extension. Its continued existence was something that private servers kept because they liked it, not because it was accurate. You can still find one here or there that does, but the vast majority don’t. I’m pretty sure HoR does not.

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Firstly in raid you’ll almost never be on top. But that’s fine because you have other tools at your disposal unlike other Classes like rogues for example. They are cut and dry where you can dispel, heal etc and those are important to use. In my opinion being top in raids dont mean much. You’re there to get through and get your loot and ho on your merry way. It’s the open world , dungeons and pvp you’ll shine much more. Crit is very important if you 24% unbuffed you’re on the right track. As for unstoppable force it’s a very good weapon overall but you’ll want to upgrade it at some point soon from a wep in Bwl , or even MC. I’d shoot for hand if rag , untamed blade , ashkandi. Obsidian edge is fairly comparable to Unstoppable force.

You can dual spec in 31 Ret and say 20 holy if you wish, as long your hit isnt bad. It depends on your gear in my opinion. If you’re going more non mana gear then you may not want to have so much in holy. For me I have a more high mana pool than most Ret pallies do and I really like that. Cause what’s a pally without mana in a fight lol. But as far as stat wise if I were you and just starting to get gear , I’d shoot for 24 % or more unbuffed , 800-900 Ap unbuffed or over 1k with might. And if your health and mana around 3.5k or higher that’s not bad either. Also for me , i wouldnt ever wear leather. I know some gear guildes say its bis and what not but I dont feel that makes you a better pally.

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No sp dmg in Vanilla and classic stacks with certain weapons abilities. Fire and going to leave other blank u have to figure out.

It was removed from nature and other wpns.

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  1. I’ll let others weigh in
  2. Yes
  3. Yes
  4. Yes, with a caveat

A Holy/Ret build will work, depending on what you’re expecting it to do. If your expectation is to compete on the damage meters then the answer is no. I’m not saying that to rain on your parade, it’s just a mathematical fact.

However, if you want to compete on the healing meters then you’re in very good shape. I run a 33/18 Holy/Ret build and consistently parse in the high 90’s.

You may be wondering why I didn’t just give you a short “just heal” reply, and the reason is because I’m going to give you advice that I took for myself.

I leveled to 60 with the absolute intent of DPSing in endgame content. Disappointed. However, I was able to find enjoyment healing in raids, and being competitive there. Saving a life with BoP, a wipe with LoH, and crushing the HPS meters it a lot of fun.

As for the DPS itch? Scratch it in PvP. I rock an OEB with a hybrid DPS/Healing set, with a weapon swap macro to Aurastone/shield. During an encounter I swap back and forth as needed. DPS in small encounters, Heal in large, swap to OEB and rank 1 SoC when OOM. Using your entire toolkit - BoF warriors, BoS squishy teammates, bubble, heal, grenades, DPS, etc,

It makes for an extremely fun play style, and allows me to forget about what I’m missing DPSing in raids.

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Show a combat log from classic proving it. Every sword I’ve tested with my Lock and Mace I’ve tested with my druid has pointed at procs not scaling with SP at all.

It would be great to get a list of specific weapons that did still scale.

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Min/maxing is boring, predictable, cookie-cuttered, and not challenging. I’m guessing that’s why OP and others are trying to make the best out of other things. And that they probably enjoy the playstyle.

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Thanks a lot everyone for all you great responses! I guess I’m on the right path! :slight_smile: I’ll just keep hoping I can get better loot from MC and soon from BWL! I guess if I ever get a chance at looting a full judgement set, I’ll try an hybrid spec to compare!

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We’re playing through old content. The min/max culture has done two things for us…

  1. It’s made the content much easier
  2. It’s created even more animosity toward “meme specs.”

Quite frankly, I have a feeling that most raid groups will be able to afford bringing a handfull of sub-optimal characters with them with no real issue (even if they’re on the “progression” phase of a raid.) Some people will look at this as carrying, and that’s fine… They can get bent out of shape all they want. In then end, it’s between you and your guild.

Personally, I do not follow the guides for ret paladins. Wearing all the rogue/shaman gear will get you bigger hits and more crit, sure… but you’ll be perpetually OoM and blowing tons of money on consumables. And for what? Maybe a 50-75 DPS increase? As a percentage increase for you, that would be significant. But it’s not going to make or break a raid.

Here are my opinions:

  1. The Unstoppable Force is probably the best pre-raid item for ret paladins. Especially humans. It’s probably one of the better weapons you can swing in PvP situations too, due to the stun proc

  2. Online guides frequently have items that are extremely hard to get (any epic that comes from a dungeon, the HoR, or even the Arcanite Reaper.) The Twig of the World Tree auctions for about 10g, and the Obsidian Edge Blade drops all the time in MC. The Twig will get most people by until they can get the latter. It’s not “BiS,” but it’s not nearly as contested. I hit pretty hard with mine! All things considered, I think a reasonable weapon progression for ret would be TotWT -> TUF -> OEB (unless OEB drops before you hit exalted)

  3. Pally plate is great for your class, especially if you’re interested in playing it as designed. Mana is essential for paladins to function. Your Dungeon 1 set and Tier 1 and Tier 2 sets (along with some really nice pieces out of Dire Maul) will allow you to function as a paladin. Your damage will be okay (for your class.) Your off-heals will suck less. You’ll have the armor and stamina to survive the occasional cleaves you’ll eat being a melee class (or, in PvP!) Having some intellect will give you enough of a mana pool so you’ll be able to last a fight without chugging mana pots all the time.

  4. I think of myself as a walking buff. I don’t complain about the buffs I receive, about the buffs I’m asked to give, or the aura I’m asked to use. Sanctuary Aura will boost my DPS, but frequently, I’m the only one in the group that benefits from it. I’ll put on whatever’s asked. I talent for Improved BoP and BoF, and those get used frequently on my allies.

  5. For the love of god, stock up on reagents and water before venturing forth! I try to keep about 200 Symbols of Kings, 5 Symbols of Faith and about 2 stacks of water whenever I leave town

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