I know most people are going to trash this post and harken back to the days of retpocalypse, but ret is definitely underperforming in pvp.
I play ret at 2.2k MMR in solo shuffles right now and I have to say, it feels so weak compared to almost every other class that I come against.
Whether it is is MM, WW, feral, mage, rogue, devour dh, any lock, it is a fact that ret is way behind in damage and thus pressure output. This is very important at high rating to apply pressure and get CDs since we don’t really have to much CC or MS to work with like almost all other specs.
We don’t even have a viable 4-set… Especially after the 12.05 patch, ret definitely needs to love when it comes to pvp.
I agree, unholy is in a bad spot, but just because unholy is weak, doesn’t mean other classes like ret can’t also be weak right now. both could use damage buffs.
Mm hunter is the only dps spec more represented in the top 500 than ret, and that’s probably only because of the shenanigans of this patch and bug abuse, and ret is still 3rd best melee in the top 100.
Ret needs to lose something to even begin to justify one of the strongest specs in the mode receiving more damage buffs, like 1-2 of your extra lives (imo). If ret could use damage buffs, then so could 75+% of the specs in the game.
Don’t get me wrong, tbh I’m not against you getting damage buffs and tbh you probably do need them in 3s. Retail PvP is such a meme atm that what little care I had left is long gone. Idc if they buff ret to retpocalypse levels again, because I won’t have to experience it.
Good luck on the next tuning pass lottery. Safest bet is probably more mm buffs imo.
What does it need help with exactly? It has extremely good utility for shuffle, it has good 30 second burst, it has good mobility and isn’t even really a melee anymore. The only thing it really lacks is damage outside of its 30 second go which is fine because 30 second gos are quite strong to begin with.
Rets purpose in shuffle is to get defensive Cds from the enemy team every 30s as much as possible while extending the round until you can win. You can’t allow ret to do the same damage as other melee while having BoP/spellwarding, Sanc, Blessing of freedom with Unbound Freedom on a 25s cd and LoH.
Ret is played a lot because it is a very fun spec and themetically top notch. Just because a spec has good representation doesn’t mean it is “strong”
I mean no he isn’t wrong, ret representation is always good whether its strong or not. Participation does not immediately mean a spec is strong usually ever. If it did, that means rogues are rarely ever strong despite the opposite being true.
When you consider participation throughout all of rated pvp, a lot of people will just play their main/mains. Paladin is the most played class in the game aside from Druid (and druid is carried by bots) and a lot of that is Ret paladin. It almost always has high representation.
However, in this case, Ret is in a good spot in shuffle and does not need nerfs or buffs. If you want ret to do more damage, its utility needs to get nerfed.
I love always seeing the casual dismissal of representation having any correlation to spec strength. So many people mindlessly regurgitate this because there isn’t a perfect one for one that universally applies to all specs at all ratings. Really tired of seeing it tbh.
Yeah it doesn’t go one for one, but it’s a reasonable indicator, especially when we are not simply looking at participation but instead are looking at representation at the higher/highest ratings.
It’s ignorant and/or disingenuous imo to suggest that there isn’t a generally strong correlation, especially with how prevalent alts and rerolling are nowadays.
People tend to take the path of least resistance, so when a spec is S tier or broken, more people are going to flock to that spec for easier rewards, more dopamine hits from winning more, etc.
I wish we could let ret be trash can tier for a few weeks or even a whole season (just tune their damage and healing really low, maybe prune 1-2 of their extra lives), and then let’s see just how many we have playing because it’s fun and thematic. I can guarantee you the participation across all ratings, especially higher ratings, will plummet.
It is ignorant to ignore the fact the spec we are discussing has always had good representation when you look at the entirety of rated pvp. I did not dismiss it in terms of using it as a statistic amongst others, but you cannot single handedly look at participation and determine a spec is strong because its played a lot, especially when the spec in question is an extremely popular one whether its performing poorly or not and historically has high representation regardless.
Do you think ret has been permanently good or something? There have been seasons it wasn’t great and its participation didn’t plummet. Even prior to the DF ret rework where ret was pretty bad it was still high. I’m not a ret main I havent touched pally in 4 or so years now so not gonna spend too much time on this, but looking at participation as a blanket stat for how good a spec is doing is more casual than you think, which is ironic.
