Ret is still dominating ranked pvp

Less impacted, sure. Fine, no.

Durability of DPS directly effects how high you can push keys and if it wasn’t 4 weeks from the end of the season with Prot Paladins in a strong place, virtually every M+ team would be running an unkillable Ret DPS given it also happens to be among the best at damage. If resto shamans had taken off sooner we’d probably already see Enhance getting dropped from Prot War teams to make room for Ret.

You mean the one that:

  1. gives lust a 1 min CD
  2. only provides 20% haste for 10 seconds and
  3. makes it uneffected by sated/exaustion/etc

It is still in, but I was going after the base when you were using a talent, which some may not have.

Ret pally changes for 10.1.5:

  • Ret paladins can no longer cast abilities while moving or inside bubble, but while they move, all damage is reduced by 95%.
  • Once they stop moving, damage taken is returned to normal and all damage dealing abilities are increased by 150%.

If I ever catch you, the Light’s going to forge you a new one.”

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Enhancement Shamans can use lust if they take the Shamanism pvp talent

Regular lust has been out of arena since Cataclysm. Bubble has existed this whole time and there have been many seasons where it was not problematic. It’s everything on top of bubble/the other basic paladin buttons that makes it now problematic. Full value SoV and divine protection on such short cooldowns combined with the passive healing/absorb, 6s big flash, and the preexisting paladin kit allows you to cycle through on go’s without even needing to bubble. There have been seasons where you do drastically reduced damage and healing in bubble. Going back to that is something to look at, but still probably not enough.

Just let paladins be the FotM for once. They don’t get it often

There is a difference in FotM and completely shuts down arena for everything else. FotM specs still have counters, and those counters benefit from higher prevalence of the thing they counter. 10.0.5 arms warrior and destruction warlock being great recent examples of this.

I mean, it sounds like basically you gotta learn to git gud and find a way to beat them. I feel you. It sucks.

rets are way too out of control with 2 walls bubble bops and 1 min wings. play ret or quit pvp is your options atm

the only way to beat them is that they mess up

make it the way it used to be. can only heal in a bubble and cant do damage

Whats the problem? Some has to be at the top. The “meta” is whatever is most popular so i guess rets the new meta?

Oh no?
If its not ret then its another class, either make one and be part of the top dps or play something that youd rather play for fun.

If the only way some people can have fun is being at the top of the charts so be it.

I won’t deny that ret is likely overpowered in PvP, but I just take issue with things like

As that runs the risk of hurting the PvE side of things to please the PvP side. So all I really ask for is we at least TRY and keep the fixes as things with no or at least minimum impact on PvE.


It’s highly improbable that they’d just remove bubble. If you look at many other specs that get to use a high number of impactful talents/capstones, most of them have drastically reduced values in PvP (see rogue, arms warrior, havoc, etc.). We just aren’t at the point with ret where enough things have been hit yet.

The effectiveness of light’s celerity and aegis of protection would be great candidates for further tunes. Judgement of the pure could just be completely removed. Wings could be further reduced. Point being, leave the new stuff in place, just bring it in line with everything else. It will still have it’s same role and will still be significantly better off than 10.0.5 in terms of durability, just not on the absurd level it is now.

BoP can be purged by Priest, Shaman, Hunter, DH, Mage, and Warlock.

Blood Elves can also do it.

And HoJ can be cleansed

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That’s a solid idea.

Or they could bring back the damage reduction for bubble. Back in the day rets did 50%, I think not completely sure on the percentage, less damage during bubble. That would be a decent middle ground I think.

IMO the issue is being able to pop wings and bubble and do unhealable burst while also being immune.

Even in PVE, with rets having a wall+shield on low CD and lots of passive healing, the bubble is really not that necessary. I would also be fine with the bubble reducing damage done by 90%.

As long as it is PvP only, I am fine with it, but if your only fix is one that affects PvE also, you are a PvPinhead that deserves to get RETked

Besides, you did not adreess the other part, I.E. how PROT might use bubble in PvE, I.E> a debuff clear, a bubble taunt for M+, etc.

Why should PvE and other specs suffer because idiots can’t see fixes that are targeted and go too broad?


This won’t be anywhere near enough but at least they’re doing incremental changes.