Ret is still dominating ranked pvp

[Dispelled-garona]

@Bertimus-sargeras

The issue in PvE and PvP pre-rework was durability outside of bubble. … I believe the changes in PvE are well-received and fine, and that meta is considerably less impacted when a dps spec overperforms because it is too durable.

Less impacted, sure. Fine, no.

Durability of DPS directly effects how high you can push keys and if it wasn’t 4 weeks from the end of the season with Prot Paladins in a strong place, virtually every M+ team would be running an unkillable Ret DPS given it also happens to be among the best at damage. If resto shamans had taken off sooner we’d probably already see Enhance getting dropped from Prot War teams to make room for Ret.

[Antiman-bloodhoof]

You mean the one that:

1. gives lust a 1 min CD
2. only provides 20% haste for 10 seconds and
3. makes it uneffected by sated/exaustion/etc

It is still in, but I was going after the base when you were using a talent, which some may not have.

[Lenthayn-azuremyst]

Ret pally changes for 10.1.5:

• Ret paladins can no longer cast abilities while moving or inside bubble, but while they move, all damage is reduced by 95%.
• Once they stop moving, damage taken is returned to normal and all damage dealing abilities are increased by 150%.

“If I ever catch you, the Light’s going to forge you a new one.”

[Drexigan-illidan]

@Antiman-bloodhoof

Just as a thought, give bubble the same treatment that lust gets, I.E. it can’t be used in ranked PvP.

Enhancement Shamans can use lust if they take the Shamanism pvp talent

[Bertimus-sargeras (Bertimus)]

Regular lust has been out of arena since Cataclysm. Bubble has existed this whole time and there have been many seasons where it was not problematic. It’s everything on top of bubble/the other basic paladin buttons that makes it now problematic. Full value SoV and divine protection on such short cooldowns combined with the passive healing/absorb, 6s big flash, and the preexisting paladin kit allows you to cycle through on go’s without even needing to bubble. There have been seasons where you do drastically reduced damage and healing in bubble. Going back to that is something to look at, but still probably not enough.

[Jàrèd-sargeras]

Just let paladins be the FotM for once. They don’t get it often

[Bertimus-sargeras (Bertimus)]

There is a difference in FotM and completely shuts down arena for everything else. FotM specs still have counters, and those counters benefit from higher prevalence of the thing they counter. 10.0.5 arms warrior and destruction warlock being great recent examples of this.

[Jàrèd-sargeras]

I mean, it sounds like basically you gotta learn to git gud and find a way to beat them. I feel you. It sucks.

[Mèrédith-pagle]

rets are way too out of control with 2 walls bubble bops and 1 min wings. play ret or quit pvp is your options atm

[Mèrédith-pagle]

the only way to beat them is that they mess up

[Mèrédith-pagle]

make it the way it used to be. can only heal in a bubble and cant do damage

[Iraedar-altar-of-storms]

Whats the problem? Some has to be at the top. The “meta” is whatever is most popular so i guess rets the new meta?

Oh no?
If its not ret then its another class, either make one and be part of the top dps or play something that youd rather play for fun.

If the only way some people can have fun is being at the top of the charts so be it.

[Antiman-bloodhoof]

I won’t deny that ret is likely overpowered in PvP, but I just take issue with things like

@Kynladoria-maladath

I think ret would be slightly more manageable if they removed bubble from it and made it just a Holy thing.

As that runs the risk of hurting the PvE side of things to please the PvP side. So all I really ask for is we at least TRY and keep the fixes as things with no or at least minimum impact on PvE.

[Bertimus-sargeras (Bertimus)]

It’s highly improbable that they’d just remove bubble. If you look at many other specs that get to use a high number of impactful talents/capstones, most of them have drastically reduced values in PvP (see rogue, arms warrior, havoc, etc.). We just aren’t at the point with ret where enough things have been hit yet.

The effectiveness of light’s celerity and aegis of protection would be great candidates for further tunes. Judgement of the pure could just be completely removed. Wings could be further reduced. Point being, leave the new stuff in place, just bring it in line with everything else. It will still have it’s same role and will still be significantly better off than 10.0.5 in terms of durability, just not on the absurd level it is now.

[Adaia-moon-guard]

BoP can be purged by Priest, Shaman, Hunter, DH, Mage, and Warlock.

Blood Elves can also do it.

And HoJ can be cleansed

[Mithràndìr-tichondrius]

@Antiman-bloodhoof

Just as a thought, give bubble the same treatment that lust gets, I.E. it can’t be used in ranked PvP.

That’s a solid idea.

Or they could bring back the damage reduction for bubble. Back in the day rets did 50%, I think not completely sure on the percentage, less damage during bubble. That would be a decent middle ground I think.

IMO the issue is being able to pop wings and bubble and do unhealable burst while also being immune.

[Kynladoria-maladath]

Even in PVE, with rets having a wall+shield on low CD and lots of passive healing, the bubble is really not that necessary. I would also be fine with the bubble reducing damage done by 90%.

[Antiman-bloodhoof]

As long as it is PvP only, I am fine with it, but if your only fix is one that affects PvE also, you are a PvPinhead that deserves to get RETked

Besides, you did not adreess the other part, I.E. how PROT might use bubble in PvE, I.E> a debuff clear, a bubble taunt for M+, etc.

Why should PvE and other specs suffer because idiots can’t see fixes that are targeted and go too broad?

[Bertimus-sargeras (Bertimus)]

@Sanq-11813

With a hotfix that will be deployed to Live environments shortly, we are making the following adjustments to Retribution Paladins:

Damage

Retribution Paladins have been overperforming in terms of their damage output, so we’re making some adjustments here to bring them more in line with our intentions.

• All damage reduced by 3%.
• Instrument of Retribution duration reduced to 9 seconds (was 12 seconds).

In addition to this we have a hotfix coming at a later date related to Execution Sentence and its unintended interactions with various damage boosts.

Defenses

One of our major goals with the rework of Retribution Paladin was to give them a significant boost to their survivability, as this was an area where they were previously underperforming. We overshot the mark here and Retribution Paladins are proving to be more durable than we intended. As such, we are making some defensive reductions to bring them more in line with our intentions.

• Fading Light - Blessing of Dusk causes your Holy Power generating abilities to also grant an absorb shield for 3% of damage or healing dealt (was 10%).
• Aegis of Protection increases the value of Shield of Vengeance by 10% (was 20%).
• Shield of Vengeance duration reduced to 10 seconds (was 15 seconds).
• Lightforged Blessing now heals you and your party for 2% of maximum health (was 3%).

[Kynladoria-maladath]

This won’t be anywhere near enough but at least they’re doing incremental changes.