the least they gotta do is take divine steed off nd put Arm of the Law back, nd reduce the cd for holy power generators on shadowlands, the rotation gets a lot of gaps. Also redesign shield of vengeance nd unbreakable spirit passive
6 Likes
Letâs just be honest here, blizz can say what ever they want about our ST or AOE overpreforming. The reality is were in a bad way atm, worst movement in the game bar none. Our dps is so centered around wings that w/o it we hit like a wet noodle. Our rotation is clunky as all hell cus far too many abilities were put on the gcd. Wings/inq/hammer etc. Its a 3-4 gcd rotation before I can even start dpsingâŚ
Now they are taking away wisdom and kings for some completely unintelligible reason, they refuse to make the charger ability halfway useful. They give us craptastic abilities like aura of retribution (I mean really blizzâŚ)
I can see it now, ret usually has trouble early expac cus of low haste. I just forsee ret being a complete dumpster spec in SL, honestly no 2 ways about it. Itâs sad too cus I LOVE my ret, but no way in hell am I going to play this gimped character in SL unless ret gets some MUCH needed attention.
9 Likes
If things continue they way they are for for Ret going into SL I might have to shelf this toon that Iâve mained since I started playing WoW in Wrath.
6 Likes
How to make the divine steed useful⌠make it an actual charge like warriors or Ferals or enhance shaman, except on Horse back.
4 Likes
Get rid of the horse. Make the ability behave just like charge and apply hindreance but the animation be wings leap/fly us to the target.
That would be cool af.
5 Likes
So Blizzard has time to nerf our damage output, but weâre years into Wheelchair-mode absolutely no word on how you plan to fix our mobility? Or is a slowable horse that needs and extra GCD for Hand of Freedom just to do what every other class can do more frequently the plan for Ret forward?
Iâm just confused because youâre nerfing our damage, when most of us can barely get in range to DO the damage anyway.
8 Likes
That damage nerf was beyond idiotic tbh. So is their insistence on keeping an absolutely horrendous skill in game like charger.
My character randomly farts out a horse, which btw needs me to use freedom like you said. If ret has to be slow blizzard then we need an absolutely MASSIVE damage increase. But you know you could just fix like 60% of our problems by swallowing your pride and bringing back laotl back, Iâm beginning to think they wont bring it back just to spite ret players at this point.
My god I hate that fkn horse with a burning passion to rival 10,000 suns.
7 Likes
You know this is the reason though right? Itâs not anything else. Other specs get reworked and Ret just doesnât. Not now, not ever. It only ever gets things taken away and chipped down. Look at how it is now and know it will only get worse before it goes live and you will wish you had what we have now. Empyrean Power, the best talent in its row, is nerfed. Thatâs the only change they saw fit to give us.
Horse will stay the same and suck. Wings will still always be all your damage but you wonât have Mastery buffs and stuff to stack it to whacky damage so it will simply be all your mediocre damage. Add to that a slow rotation because your Haste will suck until ilvl bloats a patch or two in and it smooths out. Of course, they made the CD on our builder spells longer so that weâd actually use Hammer of Wrath and Consecrate as fillers rather than making them good or useful because Holy Power is not a dead awful system that limits any creativity. Nope, not at all.
So no movement fixes, no survivability fixes, GCDs on bubble and stuff for lols and so on. Just going to be a weak and dull version of Ret we have now but with slower rotation AS WELL AS no Haste so it feels worseâŚand thatâs before beta starts. Why is that an issue? Because you better believe itâs going to get worse. You think a tuning pass will save it? Any good mandatory talents will be nerfed. Any fun mechanics will be crippled. You will beg for what it is now and you will be sad to see what is a bearable Ret in Alpha cut down to even worse.
All through this you will wonder why? You will see a few buffs and fixes and you will dare to hope. Itâll happen through beta and then theyâll be gone because I know some of you will say itâs not enough or complain that âmandatory talents are bad designâ or âpassives/procs shouldnât be the best choice on a rowâ and those abilities will be killed. Chances are they will still be the best one but just suck. Itâs happened for years and it will happen again.
7 Likes
I just did a BG on my pally as ret. Very squishy, crappy damage. Fun being out-tanked and out-dpsed by a warlock. Then I did a bg on my shammy, now that was fun. Great mobility, great utility. Even killed a rogue that targeted me as resto. If only my pallyâŚ
3 Likes
This would make that 5.6-8.4% of your total damage, putting you 2.4-3.6% less overall damage in your scenario. That would take you from 50k dps to 48.8k-48.2k dps. This doesnât seem like a huge nerf, imo. It isnât justified, but itâs not that bad.
2 Likes
Tell that to the meters. I NEVER GET QUEUED OR SELECTED AS RET EXCEPT IN PVP.
2 Likes
But is it that bad if all other classes it competes with are also being nerfed or risen?
I mean, itâs easy just to look at numbers and say NERF IN SL. but look at almost every other dps melee spec. Those that were below Ret are getting a boost and those that were way above are getting nerfed hard (DH for example). I think it will balance out.
Itâs not just dps #'s thatâs the problem bro. Itâs a big factor, but our toolkits just an overal mess. Charger the way it is, is a bad spell. Make 2 charges baseline and drop the CD to 25-30 sec, and make it immune to all movement impairing effects. The same as all the other movement spells.
Then they need to remove inq and the hammer debuff off the gcd, theres literally 0 reason why ret should have a 4-5 gcd locked window (technically 7 gcd spells before your first TV on ST fights) before they can dps. Judgement 1> blade 2> inq 3> wings 4> wrath of ashbringer or w/e 5> hammer debuff 6> blade 7> finally a TV at 8> etc. So 8 gcdâs before our big damage ability. And this will get worse with wrath going from 5hp to 3hp, now you need to use ANOTHER gcd to do what you could before that change.
Making crusader strike always useable with none of those charges bs, might alleviate this. Thatâs a stretched might tho, as it does nothing about the gcd bloat.
Then theres that pitiful ability aura of retribution, that skill doesnât even remotely feel like it fits a paladin. A DK maybe sure, but Paladinâs have never been one to let their comrades die and certainly never to hope for it. I know if I played pally Iâd never use loh on someone else in raid, not when I get my burst window if they die. And as stated before ret hits like the wettest of noodles w/o wings, which means you want this aura to proc often. This aura is basically a crap version of vision of perfection. Just change the aura to do what that essence does. BAM your welcome blizz, I fixed your broken ability.
Add on the removal of blessings, one of the few really unique features in the game. Iâm assuming dh is losing thier magic damage buff and monks their melee buff right? Plus etc.
Theres ALOT wrong with ret in SL it seems. But itâs ok we got conscecrate back, which is basically a useless aoe if theres movement.
Oh and letâs not forget our aoe got nerfed from hitting all targets down to 5, along with emphyrian power nerf.
1 Like
All obviously spot on points⌠However, you look at it all as a bunch of stuff being taken away and not enough added. I look at it as a total âstart overâ at zero mentality and then building off that. So the end result is still a good spec from that perspective, but not from a âyou took everything from usâ. Where it ends up compared to other Melee DPS classes is really all I care about.
The issue i have here is the history of the retribution paladin. Almost every other expansion they are âstarting overâ in one way or another. And although I see your point, they have constantly stripped of us abilities that most rather enjoyed. I miss the baseline HoW at 20% health, I miss Exorcism, I miss our freaking seals. I canât tell you how many posts I have been on that almost every paladin from âthe old daysâ completely misses our seals, misses the buff BoM gave us and virtually every other spell that made us special from vanilla through WOTLK.
Now what we have in general is a sorry conglomerate of spells that are ever changing. Especially for base line spells. The only 2 spells that have remained static are Judge and CS. Other than that, they keep taking things away or bringing them back (only to take them away again later).
1 Like
I agree with you and I had 5 paladins shout this down. And it starts by them saying Seals was trash game play stop asking for them.
And I will say I loved the Seal judge and then go to a different seal so i could have seal of wisdom up while using seal of command or blood going. I miss that game play. I have also been told my opinion does not matter as I do not main a paladin. Which is crap I play my paladin almost as much as my shaman and my opinion is as valid as anyone else.
I have made threads calling for Seals to come back and I will continue until they are returned to us.
3 Likes
and this statement is why you are far more justified on your feelings and thoughts about Ret Pal than I am. I have only been playing a short time, so I havenât gone through expansion after expansion of re-tools and wipes. I am sure I would be looking at this different if I had been playing a Paladin loyally since like Cata, so it makes sense you are frustrated. We dedicate a lot of time and effort to this game and deserve to be heard⌠and when you feel you never ARE heard, disappointment follows. Props for staying with it that long.
1 Like
Iâm not on the alpha or beta, but it doesnât look like Ret damage is centered around wings.
If anything, since BFA, we still have a burst phase with wings, but itâs not necessary to focus on wings like it was in Legion - where the only viable talent was Crusade and working around that.
There are a lot more options for consistent throughput.
Otherwise, I agree on steed. And DEFINITELY on the new Retribution Aura â all it does is give the Ret passive to everyone. We asked for it to be removedânot given to everyone!
I would like them to re-work Vengeance Aura (given that blessings are gone), give us back Sanctity Aura (+5% holy damage to self and group), and allow HPals to still have Mercy and Sac auras (arenât they getting removed in Shadowlands?).
Iâm okay with seeing Kings and Wisdom leave. Iâd rather they find a better use for them than to keep them as they are
This isnât solely a Paladin nerf. Everyone got hit with this.
1 Like
It will be interesting to see if they adjust the rest of the game to compensate for it though. Right now there are a LOT of pulls with more than 5 mobs in all levels of content. Be it 6-7 mob dungeon pulls, or giant packs designed to be AoEâd down, the need for AoE isnât just going to vanish when they change this. Is it going to take a hundred years for a melee to solo the Sindragosa whelp packs after this goes live?
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Iâve actually been playing Ret/holy/prot paladin since TBC. So yeah, I am completely over our tool kit almost constantly getting revamped AND nerfed. I really do believe that Blizzard doesnât care much for the retribution paladin and so continues to give us the finger. Iâm super geared (for lfr) and am usually outdone in most cases.
Just for once I would like Blizzard to listen to its retribution base and bring back things that we enjoy.
1 Like