I hate Twisting, but it certainly isn’t boring. More frustrating.
I did many, many hundreds of BG’s. Organized groups. I often sat solo defense in AB or I was an FC hunter in WSG. I OFTEN operated alone because I COULD.
Sacrifice has a CD, so purged it’s useless either way?
Yes, Reckoning IS nerfed, period. There’s literally thousands of tests showing it is. Between batching removal and their intentional CHANGE to the mechanic, it IS nerfed.
Seriously dude. TBC upgraded EVERYONE. Including the other side. This means that a Vanilla pally with no TBC alterations would get DECIMATED in pvp all day long.
Not in Vanilla, it has no CD and you can put it on as many targets as you like and the duration is 30 sec but has no limits on range or anything or even LoS, meaning if they purge it you put it back up as you please.
I assure you its not nerfed, most paladins just don’t know the rules set for how to play it correctly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0WveHACfk4
Seems to be working just fine.
And this would be very wrong in respect to PVP. I assure you if I had the opportunity to play vanilla pala in TBC I would play the Vanilla version because it is plainly better; and a literal order of magnitude better in Team play.
The only things ret outperforms is DPS Priest and Balance Druid.
All warrior, rogue, dps/tank druid, hunter, both dps shamans, fire/frost mages, and lock all beat ret. Source, Wowhead’s week 1 dps breakdown taken from 95th percentile logs.
If you want to play ret, accept that you are a buff/debuff bot and nothing more, otherwise put the dress on Shinji and get healing.
Because I don’t support class changes for rereleases unless it’s specifically stated to be a vastly altered game.
I support class changes in SOD because it openly admitted to wanting to do such a thing for those servers.
I don’t support it for anniversary because it’s not supposed to be a classic+ like SOD. Class changes fundamentally change the class balance of the game and that is too radical of a change for me.
That’s why I want people to accept it or reroll. Buff/Debuff bot, put on the dress, or go play sod.
That’s not really a reasoning though. I don’t understand can you elaborate why allowing hybrid classes to be somewhat useful in raids would be a detriment to you?
That’s the reasoning. Accept it or don’t, just like how you need to accept that you’re a buff/debuff bot, putting on the dress, or rerolling to a sod server.
The core issue is that many folks, myself included, don’t want Ret solely relegated to a PvP only class. I love my Ret Paladin and enjoy it very much in PvP. You know this. I don’t want to play a Warrior and Era has too many of those already.
I’m not advocating for Ret to be any stronger in PvP, I agree with you that it doesn’t need it. However, it should be better than it is in PvE. It doesn’t need to be a lot better, but it should be better. Having spent time with it in the PvE scene lately, its core issues are mana longevity and debuff limits. We don’t need to be doing Warrior levels of damage. Though to be fair, Warriors don’t even need to be doing Warrior levels of damage. This same issue extends to every hybrid class except warriors. They all suffer from going OoM far too quickly at which point they’re out of the fight.
Fix that, nerf warriors, the rest of the DPS balance is fine as it is. When you exclude warriors and only look at short fights, I’m reasonably content with where hybrids sit. Otherwise, the 1.12 class balance is terrible but because the community can’t think outside of #nochanges in the context of an arbitrary and bad class balance patch, we have to be stuck with it? Maybe we won’t get changes but that doesn’t mean I have to be happy about it.
And where is this coming from. I made a post on a public forum, YOU chose to respond to me, and are now trying to demand answers that YOU are willing to accept, and when I refused to play your game, I’m now harassing players?
You’re already a male human paladin but I really didn’t expect you to somehow lower the bar even more than that.
Someone will be bottom tier, hell in this situation Ret isn’t even the worst on potential DPS.
Regardless if you want to Melee DPS and for that to be considered for raid on Anniversary realms then re-roll Warrior because it’s the only acceptable melee in your selected server.
If you want to play on Whitemane then get UBER serious learn about all the wild min-max things you need to do and join some GDKP. Being that if it’s GDKP then you must accept that they demand results and you will be expected to min max and use full consumables and all the world buffs.
That is realistically your best bet, but if you want to melee as paladin in a more casual way then wait on Karazan and pray to blizzard it’s post nerf PVE so you will have a chance to be included because despite what you may think warriors and rogues are still leagues ahead of the other melee; it’s not even close.
The only way to fix paladin to be comparable in the slightest is to change Vengeance to 30% haste from +damage and give Ret DW as a 21 point talent or make it trainable.
Problem is paladins would complain that it’s not appropriate to the theme, but meh who cares.
30% haste on crit + DW would fix it instantly assuming SoR is not nerfed and you can run Sanc and Judgment of the Crusader.
I can’t stress enough that I don’t think Ret needs to be comparable. If you look at the logs, where its damage sits is actually fine. Warriors just do too much… 30% more than classes who can only dps. If you wanted to be really keen you could tone rogues and mages down a smidge but as pure dps classes, they should be the dps carries of the game.
Regardless, all hybrids are kinda in the same ballpark for dps and that’s fine. The only real issue there is they can’t sustain it in fights that aren’t 60 to 90 seconds long.
I’m not so worried about theme over gameplay… some stuff you can give up for a better game. With that said though, I don’t think DW is what we need. I actually do like the theme of slapping things with a giant 2-hander and it’s a niche that’s not really filled by others. Warriors can do it, but most of them just wanna DW and that’s fine tbh.
For real though, I don’t really want paladins to do much more dps. I just want to be able to press my buttons for the duration of a fight and maybe, just maybe, be able to press exorcism on all targets, not just undead/demon.
It would also be nice if some of our utility was useful in PvE. Without completely redesigning fights I’m not sure how to do that, so I’d just settle for Sanc aura providing some useful buff to others. That might be too much though and push Ret more into PvE territory. It’s ok that Ret is a PvP skewed spec, I just don’t want it to be completely pointless in PvE. Ditto for every other hybrid except warriors, who really should be brought down to hybrid levels.
