Meanwhile several specs are currently already doing 8k+ in Naxx. How this is so difficult for players and Blizzard to understand. Ret NEEDS a buff.
19 Likes
Hybrid tax.
26 Likes
Argument doesn’t exist when Shamans are doing over 10k, as well as boomkins and feral.
9 Likes
is not that hard to understand that there will always be a bottom dps class… just get over it bruh
22 Likes
There’s a difference between “a bottom class” and being very undertuned. Ret is in the later category despite what trolls want to claim.
15 Likes
No, it really doesn’t.
Ret brings some very useful utiloty to justify its spot in the raid.
No raids wont be stacking rets, but there is plenty of reason to bring at least 1 ret to a 25 man when the raid has some actual difficulty to it.
The reason they are heavily underdesired is because of the fact that naxx is such a joke that utility isnt even needed.
10 Likes
No it isn’t. It brings massively valuable utility to the raid.
No raids wont stack rets, but there is plenty of reasons to bring at least 1 to a 25 man raid.
And part of why ret isnt getting buffed is because prot and holy are the top teir for their roles. Thats blizzards own words.
3 Likes
Ret doesn’t bring anything that 2 Holy Paladins already bring, which is what every group is running already. The “utility” isn’t going to be more valuable than an extra dk who’s actually doing damage.
1 Like
Yeah but did you consider the infallible and amazing argument that prot and holy are good already?
Totally infallible argument don’t even try.
3 Likes
Nobody cares about your FOTM class that ended up not being FOTM.
Go play lock, DK, rogue.
26 Likes
And yet for hard modes, raids will want more than just 2 holy paladins CDs to better cover raid mechanics due to the frequency of needing those CDs and fight duration. This womt be naxx where you might see the boss mechanics twice in the 1-2 minute fight. Ulduar fights will be lasting considerably longer and people will want better raid CD coverage because of it.
Aka enough reason to bring at least 1 ret.
Most raid wide boss mechanics go off about every 30 seconds or so. Divine sacrifice is a 2 min CD. This means that divine sacrifice with just the 2 holy paladins will have 2 unfilled spots (assuming the fight lasts long enough to yield the mechanic 4 times, which is likely to happen in ulduar) this means people can fill 1 of those spots with a personal CD and then 1 if them goes unfilled. This is where the ret comes in. He filled the gap and will likely keep people alive. Thats why it is valuable. It doesnt feel valuable in naxx because naxx is as much of a joke as the heroic dungeons are.
2 Likes
No.
2 Likes
People are using 2 prot 2 holy and a ret in uldar even some with 2 holy 2 prot 2 ret as you got fights that need the utility eg alg 25.
There damage is lower sure but paired with the top tank and healer there is tons of pallys in every raid to the point of 6-7 slots being used on pallys in uldar for alg and 4 in more normal comps. This is 20-30% of the raid as pally’s. When there is 9 classes in classic one taking up 20-30% of the avg raid is not the level of needing a buff.
I din’t see a single ptr log of the upper guilds that where not taking at least 1 ret over a clear (2 if there prot went ret for a fight). As they were wanting DS. Having 1/25 raid spots being basically set in stone to have a ret is good. While taking more than 1 is not a bad idea.
Fact is there is no data that shows pallys being underrepresended that blizzards wants to see if you want buffs. There is not even data showing ret as underrepresented in both naxx and uldar. Ret was quite played in naxx and from the ptr we are seeing them in demand.
In fact using jordee from fusion as a example. He found hunters as a whole to be less worth a raid spot than ret. As hunters din’t provide enough to justify the lower dps they bought vs another lock for prog.
2 Likes
Did he tell you this? It looks like Fusion took a single Ret to Ulduar in 2 of their 7 days of PTR testing. They took multiple Hunters to nearly every fight.
1 Like
We’ve known that ret is bad in WOTLK for over a decade, and you still rolled a ret paladin
lmao
22 Likes
He publicly stated it on stream durring his joint podcast.
Also what they use on the ptr is not indicative of what they will use on live. The ptr is for testing. For example they used a bear tank for many ptr kills which was also stated by him much pref prot pally for prog and they were having issues keeping the bear up. While ad was pulling it wieght in spades. Same with warlocks they used specs norm would never used to see how it was doing in varying fights.
I mean Druid is middle of the road for every spec and Shamans are another class you usually only wanna bring 1 or 2.
Paladins are best healers and top rated tank for a lot of fights. Ret being bad is hybrid tax.
2 Likes
Paladin is not supposed to be a top damage class. You should ask why this is so difficult for players (but not Blizzard) to understand. Reroll warrior or rogue if you want to push numbers.
1 Like
Don’t worry prot paladins dps will make up for it 
1 Like
Stop assuming his class, he wants to play ret - therefore the game needs buffed to fit his specific desires.