Resubbed, same problems, honest discussion, unsubbed again

PVP Battlegrounds
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I have been playing WOW for a very long time and my favorite thing to do is casual bg’s. I’d like to discuss the state of pvp and give my honest opinions and hopefully find a few people that want to as well. So here it goes.

There is something that I really like about 2 teams of people beating each other up all day in a pixilated world and having an enormous amount of fun, but for the last few years I can only sub for a month because the state of the game doesn’t make any sense. I will break it down into a few things, and yes I have played all aspects of this game, bg’s, arena, epics, raids, mythics, farming, transmog, lore, titles etc.

  1. low level battle grounds discourage new players and cater to gear bullies and also make the game miserable for someone leveling a character and want to do bg’s as a way to level and test things out.

I see the same overgeared people one shotting everyone and its been going on for years. They get this overpowered gear, one shot everyone in the battle ground, then leave before the game ends so they gain minimal xp then hop on a different toon and do it all day.

The people that are new to wow have no idea what’s going on or why they even died and I believe it even discourages them from playing the game or subbing. like what kind of a garbage game is this?

Normal people that want to do some battle grounds in the lower levels also think this is completely unacceptable that a handful of people are actually allowed to do this. It ruins the experience and it could actually be a great community to develop if it wasn’t for the few people that ruin it for everyone by being overgeared and exploiting xp hacks.

Let’s talk possible fix?

One possibility would be that gear doesn’t scale past heirloom gear and maybe you could get a slightly better piece from a pvp box drop. That’s it. Allow xp off people to que with everyone and let’s have a blossoming community in the lower levels of battle grounds. I am sick to death of the gear bullies, I just want to play the game using skill and have some fun interesting gameplay, not die because someone with the same skill as me is basically a cowardly cheater.

  1. The specs need to be balanced better. I will never understand why Blizz is dead set on making some specs so much better than the rest, some are in the middle, and some are just unplayable and extremely weak.

Huge opportunity missed overall for a game company that wants to attract customers, but makes them have to choose only certain specs to play, maybe they are sick of that spec? maybe they just really don’t want to play the faceroll spec because they think it’s boring, or just don’t like it. Like, why not make them all pretty even? I will never understand that.

  1. End game pvp is pretty much the same as low level pvp imo. Quite often it’s either your team is way more powerful and you gy camp them or their team steam rolls you and gy camp’s you. I do not find that interesting or fun.

Too many premades as well. It’s supposed to be casual pvp random battle grounds. I would honestly love a balanced pvp experience with equal gear and imo it makes perfect sense. Sure let’s have premades but level the playing field, I know I’m going to take heat for this, but I quite enjoyed the templates in Legion.

possible fix, upon entering instanced pvp or engaging in pvp your gear becomes a fixed set of stats, like it would equip a different set designed for pvp. You could even transmog the set, and the classes and specs would become balanced so skill would prevail. I would love this tbh, or I would love at least the option to enter battle grounds with either normal stats or a fixed set. I am so absolutely sick of wanting to play this game and not being able to because imo this bullying behavior is allowed to happen.

It would be like 2 of the best boxers facing off for the title but one of them wears special gloves that give him 50% more punching power. It makes no sense.

So hopefully some people read this and want to discuss it also, I honestly just want to play the game and I miss it. sick of battle ground gear bullies and sick of flavor of the month specs. I play all the classes and specs btw not just this shaman, oh and here’s a perfect example, all Shaman specs are b tier atm.

So what do you think?

9 Likes
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Hi OP. I’m not sure what to say besides I think blizz doesn’t care about PvP, especially casual/unrated, and definitely not about lower-than-max-level PvP. In order for those areas of PvP to improve for the average casual PvP player, we would need blizz to care.

There is no real PvP community in this game to support improvement because too many people have a mentality that casual/unrated is something to not care about and also something to exploit to the most min-max level you can. While there may actually be a lot of people in game who feel the same way you do, they either simply stop playing or play less.

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I know, but I have subbed for a month to see if it’s any different and it’s not. I will at least try to make a change on the forums before my time runs out and I don’t play for another 6 months or so. I have moved on to different games but I miss wow. It could be so much better. I have many ideas and when I try to discuss them I am met with so many rude trolls and haters talking about Progression lol. or just being plain mean. This game has alot of forum bullies and gear bullies. what’s so wrong with a straight up fixed stat balanced game? I would love it.

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May as well. Yes, the forums have deteriorated badly. It reflects how fewer people overall are playing the game; but blizz has also fractured the player base across the different games as well. I don’t think blizz knows how to balance the game because they basically don’t PvP or have interest in it apart from trying to make $ off people faction changing and whatnot.

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Gear/and all player power is a reward gained from having time to play, knowledge, previous success in content. Many specs can kill many specs in a few seconds if geared and played well.
If you are not an already geared and skilled Twink, you won’t like lower brackets. There is no fix.

As far as trying to normalize damage, tools, and healing across all specs, they try, sometimes. But in non-raided game modes, what external buffs you have and how you use them matters a lot. From berserker buffs to engineering tools, there are many ways to increase combat effectiveness beyond your character’s tools. Again, without watering down the non-rated gameplay, there is no fix.

For rated play in TWW, Blitz may continue to increase less then fully geared players item level to get them closer to max geared stats. But that will not force players to have the correct stats, gems, enchants, embellishments, macros, add ons, skill, or experience playing that spec.

Sometimes players will die, it is ok, it is combat, there does not need to be a fix.

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I think the OP is concerned about large power gaps and imbalanced teams in random bgs. There are various solutions for these problems if Blizzard wanted to fix things.

IMO, if we had very small power gaps and more balanced teams, it would result in better games and more fun for the PvP community. But, some people aren’t interested in fair matches. They enjoy roflstomping.

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OP wants twinks to not exist, for templates to return and gear and talents chosen to not matter, I can’t grant that.
OP could want to log in after being gone the rest of the season and to win Vs geared and skilled players who have been active that season, I don’t have that power and no one else can grant that wish either.

Right now PVE character leveling is super fast, and once pvp geared, excess honor can fully honor gear and alt very quickly prior to doing any PvP content on the alt. I think max level PvP gearing is great.
Prior to experiencing having spec knowledge on a BIS geared character, there is no knowledge you can gain about your possible damage output or survivability. The tuning that decides how effective specs are affects us all, but cannot possibly be favorable to you if you play without the correct gear and talents. That comes in time, along with experience. If you quit without getting max level and BiS gear you don’t know what endgame PvP is.

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Blizzard can. If they cared.

That sounds like someone is relying on gear to win. If a skilled player who has been active that season loses to the OP who just started playing again, wouldn’t that mean the OP is more skilled?

If it’s so fast and easy, why have a gearing obstacle at all in PvP? People commonly complain about ungeared or undergeared teammates dragging down their random bg team. It reduces everyone’s enjoyment. Well, not including the people who enjoy roflstomping ungeared or undergeared players.

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OP never claimed to win Vs geared or skilled or both players. That would be bragging not complaining, and an odd reason to quit the game. One of the primary concerns was the OP dying quickly. My solution, get character level to max, gear properly, know your spec and the rest of the specs, play well. There is no shortcut. There are non MMO games you can hop into anytime with the same possibility of success as everyone else accept for the skill factor. If they want load outs play a game with load outs I suppose. Character choices and progression matters in an MMO. I play and have fun with an average of one hour a day to play.

Relying on gear to win, interesting argument. I just don’t see players taking off their gear to have OPs stats whenever they face them.

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Then why not have level 10 players in the same bgs as level 70 players? Why separate lower level players from max level players? After all, it’s a MMO. Progression matters. Character levels matter.

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That’s the strangest PvP idea I’ve heard this year. That’s like saying why doesn’t a striped trout battle the militaries of the U.S.

WoW(and many games with PvP) that have leveling, put brackets in content so you shouldn’t have 200health players fighting 1.5million health players. Removing brackets would be bad. As someone mentioned, some players complain when less than BIZ geared players are on their team. How do you think level 16s will fair fighting max level players?

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Right.

Large power gaps aren’t good in PvP matches. It’s better to keep power gaps small.

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In your bracket, gear progression is both the content and the reward, getting the player power along with gear is the motivation to play, and one meaningful reward in non-rated PvP that improves your other motivator/reward, success in combat. Some folks like titles and achievements too, but spending some conquest on a piece you want or looting the great vault for an otherwise expensive 2 hander is a dopamine boost for me.

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Blizzard killed a lot of avenues for gearing with the level squish in SLands, the expectation I think is you gear in dungeons until the higher levels in the bracket. They lowered the ilvl of heirlooms which lowered the power of levelers as well. You can buy sets with marks but since you level so fast it’s not really worth it unless you’re swimming in them.

I’ve been gearing my healer in early S3 gear in randoms, mainly epics. I think it’s a lot easier do do that on alliance but while there have been moments. I find positioning cautiously takes care of a lot of the gear gap issues, maybe I can’t get to the front on my horse so I take a catapult type solutions.

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So yeah. Some people want power gaps.

The OP and I think PvP would be more enjoyable for more players (and more welcoming to new PvPers) if power gaps were reduced/removed.

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I think some gear progression is important, it’s the heroes journey going from weak to strong, but how dumb would the story have been if Darth Vader killed Luke in A New Hope? There needs to be some progression, feeding new and less motivated players to high level players isn’t a good story. Hansel and Gretel cooked and eaten by the witch.

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And you’re welcome to have that as an opinion.

I think your opinion exists because there are many specs that in just a few seconds, do more damage than a max geared person has for total health. Without good defensives being available to a spec or, defensives being off CD, or defensives being removed early from dispells, or defensives being left unused, players die.

Right now mediocre players who have some game knowledge can see what defenses an enemy has available and plan accordingly. They can also join a (immoral) community and queue sync a bunch of teammates on discord into the same non-rated PvP and call targets. With 7dps targeting the same enemy they get a kill every time they chose to, doesn’t require gear or skill.

So we can complain about queue syncers, we can complain about being swarmed by the whole enemy team at the same time without any possibility of victory, and we can complain that player A with honor gear isn’t as strong as player B with max/correct gear, embellishments, tier gear if it is BIS for a spec and not a handicap, enchants, gems, macros, add-on, and game experience. There truly is a multiple of hurdles for new players, but the ones that are there by design are character progression and skill.

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Are you suggesting separating players by recent success or failures, that’s MMR.

Maybe we could separate players based on a more long term metric of success, wait that is CR

We could buff players stam and stats if they don’t have conquest, oh we do that in Blitz.

If you want max geared players out of randoms… If you got your wish exploiters would equip one honor piece, likely medallion or bracers and still kill folks in BGs with their army of queue syncers.

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I’m suggesting we move to less fodder based systems and maybe new players would stick to it longer. Stop building straw men.

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Would you explain what you mean by Fodder System?

I don’t want to assume, but I think you’re saying, as you previously did, player power gaps from item level disparity is too great.

Truth be told, damage or healing output increases from one piece of gear going from honor to conquest is indeed low, and Bloody token Gear fills and item level gap between them. The larger player power gap is all honor Vs all Conquest or even non or some PvP gear Vs all Conquest.

The best defense to the power creep is participation early in the season to stay roughly equal to enemy’s and allies.

Everyone can see your health pool. Low health enemies can be ignored, but are more likely to be focused.

1 Like