No one does
This is WoW pvp summed up across the board. Everyone wants unfair advantages because if they were good at pvp, they’d be playing a pvp game. Not whatever this is.
Then you wouldn’t have a problem with
Y’all don’t want pvp. You want to dunk on people you outgear lol
You brought up solo-q in the context of retail. Which is the context I was discussing that.
Let’s not try to conflate the request of solo-q in retail to anything like that in classic. They’re not the same, even though the end-goal is the same. Freer access to gear that would otherwise not be available or take too long to get, behind the veil of “we totally just want great pvp matches, and that’s what pug vs pug has always been about in heaps”. You know that’s not the case. I know that’s not the case. Everyone knows that’s not the case.
Unless anyone is willing to concede pvp gear > naxx for premade vs premade (rbg)'s in sod, then you can pound sand in my eyes.
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If this means, “I want to join a WSG bg to get exalted rewards while wearing starter zone gear on my level 20 priest,” then it might actually make more sense to be asking to separate level 25 BGs from level 20-24, though the power disparity probably isn’t even within a 100th of a percent as much in that case as say: an NBA team going up against a random group of elementary school kids.
I don’t think that’s what you’re saying though. And if it’s not, then…
If there is any problem with BGs it is giving out equal rewards to solo queuers who are not participating and face no punishments. Address that issue before anything else.
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Hmm… the reason has been pretty explicit.
Fighting premades as a pug is not fun.
You’re bringing things out of context to fit some sort of non-point.
As it’s been in retail from bc onward, if you’re not good enough to achieve a rating, you don’t deserve the gear. If you don’t have the gear, guess what? You’re not even in the pool of competition of “undergeared” people getting stomped. Just stop.
Fighting pugs as a pug isn’t fun either. It’s almost like what fun is, is subjective.
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LOL irony, fun is subjective while trying to tell other people what isn’t fun.
Quite obviously a lot of people think fighting pugs as a pug is more fun than being rolled by a premade. I can’t possibly imagine why…
I’m not. WoW pvp isn’t some chicken vs egg mystery. Without gear you can’t be competitive. Full stop. People aren’t interested in WoW pvp that sees them at anything other than an extreme advantage, as evidenced by premades.
Hm. I think it’s quite fun.
Quite obviously a lot of people think purposely pairing with other players is more fun than being grouped with a bunch of random spergs who feed & throw every game.
Since every game is vs premades. Every pug is feeders & throwers. Using your established logic and frame of reference.
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So then you should have no problems with matching premades against other premades 
Do they really though? Or are they just lying about it on the forums because it’s hurting their win averages for their bots?
This is a legitimate question. Does anyone who is advocating for pug vs pug BGs actually enjoy participating in the BG objectives, or are people here who are asking for them trying their best to defend their right to non-participation in BGs for equal rewards?
It isn’t something that I personally think should be acceptable, but of course it’s up to the devs to make and enforce the rules, and non-participation seems to have become somewhat normalized, so I am feeling as though my personal opinion on this matter is not the popular one.
Would these same people then also object to this: Keep things as they are now, but only allow WSG marks acquisition and rep gains past Revered if you are in a full WSG raid of 10 people, while P1 is active. Do something similar for AB.
This would mean that like Ashenvale, WSG would only reward up to Revered for solo players.
Thoughts?
When I’m 2-3 man, I find fighting premades fun. I do that on purpose for fun.
Losing isn’t fun, is maybe what you’re trying to say.
And like Abom said, he wants BGs where people have no discord (no coordination), no class roles (players off doing their own thing) and no gear disparity (I want to q up with zero BFD gear and win without the disadvantage)
Umm… yes quite a lot of people obviously enjoy playing BG’s and can’t for whatever reason always do so with 9-14+ other people.
Well in an ideal match making system that should be what happens, comparable teams across all metrics.
The queueing system can’t account for all of it but matching premades against premades is something it can easily do.
I don’t see it as any different than having level brackets.
There are dozens of past & present glads who would beg to differ.
Winning games naked with only weapons against a 1700-1900 team. Or carrying pretty horrific players to high rating against teams at upper mid mmr.
Individual ability to play ones class accounts for a lot more than gear. It wasn’t gear that stopped people from moving up in mmr. It was their own limitations.
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As someone who queues BGs, it isn’t obvious at all to me. The people I see (anecdotally of course) in BGs while solo queued who are complaining are often the very same ones who are not participating.
The ones who are actively trying to complete the BG objectives, regardless of whether it is PuG vs PuG or PuG vs Premades all seem to not only be competent, but also to stand a chance of actually winning, while the most difficult and challenging aspect of this has nothing to do with the composition of the enemy team, but almost solely on the number of PuGs in solo queues who are not participating, actively dragging their teams down.
Why is this not at the forefront of any discussion about BGs?
I’m all for matchmaking. They can’t really make a change that is going to upset nor affect me unless:
- Q times rise unreasonably
- They remove the ability for me to a with my squad
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Nah, I’d rather just see welfare puggers (yourself) driven out of bg’s entirely.
I suppose you’d be excited about any change in this direction because it means Chingchong can afk you up to r14 for a nominal fee.
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Would solo q players accept a solo only q, if that bg didn’t reward rep, honor or tokens?
That would help us see who was in it for an easier grind and who was in it for fun.
So to your mind citing an extreme minority of individuals who pvp finding a niche case for themselves just makes gear irrelevant? Come on now. That’s obtuse.
In a vertical progression MMO, I’d say it accounts for about half. I understand you think that because X player did Y thing 10 years ago that skill and gear aren’t interchangeable, but there’s a reason these guys farm for the gear then subsequently go on to use it.
It ain’t for transmog.
It ain’t because “they earned it.”
In WoW, no one cares about pvp situations unless they have an extreme advantage. Premades expound upon this further by not only having players at the extreme end of gearing advantage, they’re also coordinated usually in voice coms.
They’re doing this because they’re rep farming. They don’t care for pvp because if they did, they wouldn’t be pug rolling in premades because there is little to no pvp outside the first few minutes in a pug vs premade situation.