That’s a big mental gymnastics routine there. DPS can lower the healing requirements by killing things faster, for sure. And if you have enough DPS, you can even push healing requirements low enough to not require a dedicated healer.
But that is just unequivocally not the same as them out healing you, which was the description you used and to which I responded. To which I maintain, if any DPS is out healing you, either your group is taking so little damage they should’ve run 4 DPS or you’re doing something very wrong as the healer.
No, rejuv ticks for like 30k, while ret paladins dawnlight puts over a million healing per second and they get that by accident with almost 35% uptime. feral druid with nature’s vigil is more competent group healing than a resto druid. I don’t think it’s possible for a resto druid to out heal their group, in any group. A hunter has a button that has 3 charges of fill my hp to 100%. Resto druid’s same button heals themself for 50% one single time.
Which gets to my, you are doing something wrong comment. Yes, each HoT is weak on its own, each HoT on a target increases all healing on that target. When you get 4 HoTs on a target, it’s going to be ticking for a lot more.
Show me a single ret paladin that can maintain 1 million HPS for even a 3 second window.
No, it isn’t. It won’t even outheal a resto druid that’s actively healing damage events when it’s active. And being a 90 second CD, you get nothing from it for more time than you get something.
I don’t think you have any idea how to play a resto druid, if you even try to. I have yet to be out healed by anyone in a key I’ve healed in TWW.
In what way is comparing the self heals of a DPS spec and resto druid relevant to the discussion on how well a resto druid can heal their group?
No it’s going to be ticking 42k after using 5 global cooldowns.
NEED I REMIND YOU, I HAVE SEVEN MILLION HEALTH, and that is significantly less than the tanks.
Yeah then you’re looking at a healing done list sorted by self only, You don’t get in the same hemisphere as a blood dk. No, not hemisphere, you’re not even in the same solar system.
This would depend on your mastery amount. And you get the mastery bump on all the other HoTs you are using to increase that mastery, it’s a positive feedback look. It’s just disingenuous to only consider one HoT when the spec is built around blanketing multiple HoTs on the target that all add to one another’s healing.
First, I am looking at total healing for the dungeon.
Second, this is an even more disingenuous argument than you were making when only considering the mastery impact of rejuvenation. Blood DK has basically no mitigation, its entire purpose is to get walloped then heal itself back up. It has zero ability to replace a healer for keeping the group alive through the damage they are going to take. Very few healing specs will be able to top a blood DK on healing meters in a dungeon, not just resto druid. But the healing it’s providing is simply not the same. And that’s a far cry from where we started this discussion, that resto can’t outheal any member of the party, not just the tank:
Resto druid has problems when we compare it to other healers. But it’s not incapable of healing groups until the absolute max level of keys. You’re straight lying about what it can do, either intentionally because you think people won’t know better or unintentionally because you don’t know how to heal as a resto druid.
Maybe not when people who have no idea how to play it pilot the spec. But resto druid has timed +11 keys, the same max as both priest heal specs and holy paladin. I’m sorry you’re struggling so much on resto druid, but I can safely channel Ion when I say, frankly that’s a skill issue.
what on earth are you talking about, people are clearing 13’s … not a single druid among them.
Literally 5 out of hundreds… for an eleven and on a key you dont need to heal on. Ok nice logic.
It’s cool though that you wanted to bring up m+ rankings so we can all look and gaze upon no druids being represented there.
Resto druid is not S tier, not a or b or c… It’s not even d e or F… A british crumpet nibbler was hired to come up with a new letter for restor druid and it comes after letter Z.
This is the ultimate strawman of your own position. No where did I say or imply that resto druid was S tier, or even in a good place. But tier lists are relative to the competition, not an indication of the content the healer can succeed in. I’ve said numerous times that druid is in a bad place when compared to other healers. But not being S tier is just not the same as being incapable of outhealing your DPS. Certainly not being able to heal a follower dungeon is absolutely ridiculous.
That is not his point, so the one with a strawman here is actually you. Try reading what he said again, and replying to his main point… Or keep trolling.
Please enlighten me on his main point. Here are a few selections:
The first quote I posted was the first time Nuggets posted in the thread. They claim directly that every member of their group is outhealing them as a resto druid. This is a significantly different discussion than comparing resto druid to other healers, which is what the rest of this thread has been about.
So yeah, I stand behind what I’ve said. If you are being outhealed in a 5 player group by anyone except certain tanks as a resto druid, either your group isn’t doing content that is challenging for them or the resto druid is doing something very wrong.
Resto druid can definitely still do higher content, and it is not as doom and gloom as some people on this thread are making it out to be but it definitely needs some adjustment. I have been playing my hpally alt recently and it’s amazing how impactful WoG+beacon feels on my party’s health bars whereas resto druid is just lacking that burst healing which is so integral in the damage patterns of m+ and raid this expac. Personally what I think would help steer resto druid in the right direction is to get rid of grove guardians. It does not feel good to press at all and I would much rather that power go into other parts of our kit. Anyone remember when we used to be able to burst our efflos for burst healing back in MoP? THAT felt amazing and would seriously help our lacking burst healing if it was re-implemented. Photosynthesis and flourish being on the same talent node is complete garbage and also needs to change, I feel like I constantly need to ramp in m+ because they took flourish away and not having the 10% HoT haste in raid is so cringe. Our class talent tree is also just a mess, being forced to spec into instincts of the claw to access some key defensive talents, among other things.
There’s a great table on reddit that compiles all of the RWF comps since Legion and it is saddening. In legion there were resto druids brought to the RWF comps but in BFA, SL, and DF a resto druid was only brought to Sark, that’s it. Out of the 11 RWFs from BFA to now resto druid was brought ONCE. Why are we always weak in raid at the beginning of an expac? There’s another post suggesting we need a fundamental change to mastery because of how it scales and I full-heartedly agree if that means we can actually be good at the beginning of an expac. No one cares if we’re BiS in the fated tiers when no one’s playing the game.
So I agree with the vast majority of what you posted, but don’t fully agree with this. Grove Guardians is really nice to have in M+, at least for me. Having an ability to get medium healing out without having to leave cat form really helps the spec at times when damage is manageable.
The problem with Grove Guardians is that so many things are tied to it that druids realistically have to take it. Combined with the fact that the other side of the choice node has been a meme forever now, and it makes it even more of a necessity. If Blizzard could put something that is actually useful for healing, especially for raid healing, as the choice instead of Nourish, that would go a long way to fixing some of the druid design issues.
As long as you can trust in Blizz smart healing… I don’t like it, kinda random, too much out of my control. It does not look impactful when you summon, IMO.
This is the issue, WoW is becoming more faster paced, more constant AoE and heavy bursts as mechanics but Resto Druid isn’t keeping up with the direction WoW is heading.
Seriously Resto Druid needs to be modernised to keep up with WoW.
Resto Druid can definitely do Higher Content, the problem with Resto Druid vs every other Healer is that other healers have the kit to help further the team in those slight hiccup moments to keep everyone alive while Resto Druid doesn’t. Resto Druid requires everyone to play optimally and is most punished by other’s errors rather than their own.
Huge AoE constant burst heading out?, other healers press a few buttons and the situation is dealt with. While Resto Druid doesn’t have this luxury and it shows.
Convoke is literally one of the worst CDs across the board with all healers due to its rng, I’ve had it where someone is getting chunked by constant AoE and only a Wild Growth has hit them, meaning they died.
I’ve literally PuGd all my keys to 2364 IO, it’s been a struggle, maybe I’d be higher if I didn’t get declined so much but you get a team that pressed their defensives correctly and all, it’s a breeze and feels good, but when they don’t it’s feels impossible to heal. We are just truly reliant on others more so ourselves to heal through certain situations.
Example, Evokers Zephr, we need others players utility then rather just being dependant on our own ability and skills to heal through situations.
I think that’s the issue and it’s become more noticeable in TWW, it also doesn’t help I still believe we are severally lacking healing, literally one of the worst I believe bottom 2 on just healing and one of our defensives of Bear Form + Frenzied Regeneration literally demands us to completely stop healing to try and stay alive ourselves is another issue.
I jump on my other healers and I feel like myself alone can fix every situation with my CDs but as Resto Druid I’m just more praying everyone else presses their defensives or CDs to help.
I mean for the times when I need fairly light healing, it gets the job done. It’s not like I can’t pop out of cat when they aren’t getting the job done. To be clear, I wouldn’t be opposed to having something different to fill that void. But it’s the only thing I have besides Convoke that allows me to get any healing out without shifting. And Convoke is, by design even more random.
That’s my problem with it. Between grove guardians and convoke I feel like I do not have a lot of direct control over where some of my supposed burst healing is going. I want to press buttons and have them feel impactful and grove guardians just isn’t it. Now, if grove guardians could tranq that would be potentially interesting but as is I am not a fan of the playstyle overall.
Exactly. I can think of a few gnarly overlaps where I struggled healing through on my resto druid. Second boss of dawnbreaker dark orb+ shadowy decay at the same time was really rough and last boss of Siege when putrid waters and slam goes out at the same time both of these were 10 keys. I do feel very reliant on other players using their defensives, health potions, etc. to heal through this. The number of times I have people hotted up, treants out, I convoke and people still die to unavoidable damage is aggravating.
I don’t know why but reading your posts made me laugh.
So Restoration Druid is supposed to be extra weak because Blizzard cannot chime into Hotfix the mastery or here’s a thought to deliver us a new mastery? Wouldn’t that be a better design then to constantly go back and forth and hotfix and rework just to do it again at the start of the next expansion?
Seems like a totally intelligent way to toss resources.
It is also ironic a Shaman poster complaining how overturned Rdruid mastery is when a Rsham legit has % heal increase based off low hp players that scales off not only crit, totems, sham HoTs, and to top it off you start off with a base 40-60% mastery ???
Meanwhile my one rejuv at 615 ilvl will only tick at 56,000 every 2 sec.