Are you after something similar to how pvp gear works, like ‘increases the ilvl of this item to 639 when in mythic dungeons’ or something?
I see I see, so are you saying that there people were force to raid since it was the only thing do or that there endgame stop at heroic since it was all they had to do and I do get it some people just like to run dungeons or small group content.
To those who felt force to raid I can kinda see it but to straight up dungeons runner I don’t see it if you want to run dungeons then run dungeons and then you wait till blizzard makes more dungeons and run those which they use to be good at but lately have gotten lazy about that.
the only other thing I could think is that people just want big gear which I would ask why most of the world content is so braindead that even max level greens is good enough, having the blue heroic gear is a good step up
Half the fun in any activity I do in WoW comes from the reward system. The other half comes from the activity itself. Delve rewards could be buffed and I still wouldn’t do them.
In the case of M+, I enjoy it if I’m doing it with the right people, but if we isolate its reward system to only exist for itself, then it’s essentially its own independent game to me. I’d rather be progressing in a different game than M+ WoW. I’m not super excited about getting gear just to chase io scores.
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Yes, if you enjoyed difficult PvE in WoW, then your only option for many years was to raid. We had challenge modes in MoP, but because the rewards for those were just cosmetics, they had a very limited shelf life.
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You mean like how M+ destroyed raiding under mythic for so long?
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Remove the timer and include a death count.
This would be terrible to balance around. Specs do 2-3x outgoing and can survive 2-3x more incoming damage when they’ve got cooldowns.
Removing the timer would make Blizzard balance it on the assumption that you’re using cooldowns most, if not all pulls and tune accordingly. Unless the death count is essentially so high as to be non-existent, this would lead to way more bricks than the current system does.
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I was thinking more along the lines of teamwork would benefit from it and hopefully create less drama due to not just rushing through. But I guess you’re right.
This game is huge and people who admittedly don’t enjoy Mythic plus as much as other content seem to be persistent on demanding it be changed in a way so fundamentally part of its original core concept, it would cease to be the same thing. There are so many things to do without a timer in this game, but ofc it’s likely Blizz will cave in some way, hopefully it’s an OPTION and not a total overhaul to something some of us enjoy the challenge of. I’d bet the difficulty after the squish has humbled a lot of people who got a false idea of their level of skill, personally I’m enjoying pushing beyond my previous limits and figuring out how to improve.
It would create way more drama and finger pointing.
Right now it’s entirely possible for Tanks to die in less than a global CD if their cooldowns lapse at the wrong time. This would get significantly worse when Blizzard inevitably bump up how much damage mobs to do account for the fact Tanks have literally all their cooldowns for like 70% of the actual combat time in this scenario.
You’d dramatically ramp up the pressure on tanks and healers (and not to mention the DPS meta would shift towards who has the biggest burst window in cooldowns, even more than it currently does) and the amount of people willing to do the role when it’s perceived that 90% of the pressure in a run is on you, would plummet.
The timer is just the cleanest way to do it. It essentially functions as a “death counter” like people desperately want while preventing any of that situations downside.
And really, the timer is tuned in such a way that you don’t need to do risky behaviour to beat it. With decent DPS and minimal downtime, you can play pretty safe and still comfortably time the dungeons.
People just like taking risks and pulling big because that’s fun to do.
This is because M+ players have generally been really vocal about keeping M+ as the vastly superior gearing method that obsoletes all other forms of gearing.
M+ players general response has always been “too bad, just do M+ if you want to be rewarded with mythic raid gear from the vault for failing to even time a dungeon timer”.
Basically, the contempt that most M+ players have had for people who don’t want to play M+ has led to all the requests for change, because M+ has been by far the easiest way to gear to a high ilvl (it rewards failure after all).
You only have to look at the hysterical reaction M+ players have had to delves rewarding still less than mythic gear to see how disingenuous they are. They want people to be forced into M+ or not play the game.
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It really doesn’t make anything obsolete. There’s plenty of raiding going on and icymi a lot of BiS is from raids, not M+. Nice imagination though.
Lmfao the reward for failure IS NEW, removing more possibility for failure makes it even worse my your own metric omfg.
Raiding is alive in well. Anything destroyed about raiding is destroyed because of raiding and if anything else the wow reward designers.
You can’t possibly believe this to be true. There are so many more people who do M+ than mythic raid that to suggest the former would be no big deal while the latter would end the game is frankly delusional. That’s even if we subtract the mythic raider numbers from M+, under the assumption that 100% of them wouldn’t run M+ if they didn’t feel they needed to (which of course, is also obviously untrue).
Do you have any source of this? In a lot of these kinds of threads, M+ players like myself have been fully in favor of bringing raid gearing up to M+. And when I have engaged in such conversations, I was told by raiders they didn’t want that; it was worsen M+ gearing or bust. It felt more like a desire to exert control rather than actually solve the problem they claim exists.
Can you produce just one quote of this?
Err, M+ has nearly always awarded mythic raid ilvl loot from the great vault for failing to time a key. It’s one of the key reasons it invalidated all raiding below mythics.
It’s a bit better in TWW because they actually tuned M+ difficulty to match the ilvl of the potential rewards, considering it’s spammable 24x7 with no lockout and awards inflated ilvl loot from the vault even if you fail to time the key.
Hence the absolute apoplexy - no more M+ loot gravy train has upset a lot of people.
The only imagination is pretending that M+ hasn’t harmed WOW and mostly invalidated all forms of gearing beneath Mythic raids up until TWW.
You can do a search through my post history for the last few years in regards to M+ if you’re interested, plenty of examples.
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Yeah, this is a reward designer issue.
Vault loot is a weekly thing, it’s not loot on failure. Goalpost moving is intellectually lazy.
Maybe Blizz should develop a Heroic+ for those who need more learning experience or fun and less challenge. Same dungeon rotation, no keys; so no depletion, no timer and no affixes. Just scaling damage and a few levels with different track gear. Then they could leave M+ mostly alone except to answer to people who plan on sticking with it.
100% m+ but thats not what happened did it. delves were actually much better for gearing early on that m+ and basically destroyed the 2-6 levels.