You can stop with whatever b s reasoning you have for it. “Identity, agency, meaning” Just admit you dont like it, say you dont like it, ask for it to stay, see what happens and move on. This argument is so stupid
ITS OKAY TO DISLIKE SOMETHING
But this whole victimization like youre so hurt and torn is false, tired, stupid, reaching.
My feelings ARE hurt and I AM torn between giving up on WoW or trying to find some way to still have fun if this goes through, so you can just stop telling me how I feel.
That wasn’t what the discussion we just had was about though.
Enjoy your fragility, im done having discourse with you
Can I have your stuff when it goes through and you quit?
And no one is happy about that, yet the other changes are a net positive.
Disengenuous poster is disengenuous.
Yet it doesn’t have to be part of every spec. Which is something you refuse to grasp.
Explain this.
"Priests use powerful healing magic to fortify themselves and their allies. They also wield powerful offensive spells from a distance, but can be overwhelmed by enemies due to their physical frailty and minimal armor. Experienced priests carefully balance the use of their offensive powers when tasked with keeping their party alive." - https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/game/classes/priest
To me this reads that priests are healers, almost completely ignores shadow exists.
“Rogues often initiate combat with a surprise attack from the shadows, leading with vicious melee strikes. When in protracted battles, they utilize a successive combination of carefully chosen attacks to soften the enemy up for a killing blow. Rogues must take special care when selecting targets so that their combo attacks are not wasted, and they must be conscious of when to hide or flee if a battle turns against them.”
Rogues waste combo points? As far as Im aware, they did away with that years ago.
“Warlocks burn and destroy weakened foes with a combination of crippling illnesses and dark magic. While their demon pets protect and enhance them, warlocks strike at their enemies from a distance. As physically weak spellcasters bereft of heavy armor, cunning warlocks allow their minions to take the brunt of enemy attacks in order to save their own skin.”
Hmmm wow this seems like pets are the main focus for locks, but last I checked… they are an after thought for destro and afflic and only cared about by demo. Afflic usually pet sacs lol and destro uses a hound for utility.
“Death Knights engage their foes up-close, supplementing swings of their weapons with dark magic that renders enemies vulnerable or damages them with unholy power. They drag foes into one-on-one conflicts, compelling them to focus their attacks away from weaker companions. To prevent their enemies from fleeing their grasp, death knights must remain mindful of the power they call forth from runes, and pace their attacks appropriately.”
Hmmm I don’t see anything about plague, controlling undead, using the power of frost or blood…
Must not be important to dks… oh wait.
Then we look at your bread and butter source.
“Hunters battle their foes at a distance or up close, commanding their pets to attack while they nock their arrows, fire their guns, or ready their polearms. Though their weapons are effective at short and long ranges, hunters are also highly mobile. They can evade or restrain their foes to control the arena of battle.”
Must be 100% accurate. Can’t question or single out any of this to relate to specs or exclude specs.
All you care about is it says “hunters use pets” and use that as your sole arguement to berate people about “LOOK WHAT BLIZZARD SAID LOOK WHAT BLIZZARD SAID!”
Right, thats the part we want to change: Put the option back
Not all positive, need a ton fo work and polishing, but we don’t want then to be reverted
Again, every time i see someone suggesting BM or survival i will post that
Why not?
And yet, it is, part of every spec, now more than ever.
MM was the spec of choice you could chose to not have a pet, or have a pet you tamed.
This rework remove both options, to make a nontraditional pet, part of the spec, devoid of choice.
That is a youy problem, nowhere in the quote specify light, shadow or void powers.
Priests use powerful healing magic, true.
Priests also wield powerful offensive spells from distance, aka, shadow, also true
No? rogues still use combo points
no, this seems like demons are part of the class
that is included with dark magic
It is 100% accurate, actually 
And am i wrong? hunters use epts, is a fact
MM was the spec that could chose, not use one.
But it is what they said though 
Give it time to simmer and develop.
Big changes usually do.
What other choice is there other than scream to the heavens how unfair it is?
Yet hunters, it specifically lays out pets. Convenient for your arguement no?
Rogues dont lose combo points anymore. Haven’t in years.
Yet most of that info was regarding demons.
A lot of info focused on demons where as the opposite is done ingame.
So is using ranged weapons, yet they specifically said knocking arrows or using a gun or polearm.
Yet you completely ignored all the inconsistencies I laid out purely because the hunter page says exactly what you want it to say for your argument when its beyond inconsistent for nearly every other class.
Scream to blizzard
They dont, it is part of the class page, as i already pointed to you.
They still do, just not like before, stay out of combat and they are lost
Ok, so? how that change anything? nothing is wrong, you are just nitpicking that they speak more about X or Y
yes… and? is that wrong?
There is, literally, no inconsistencies
Actually there are lot of people, some in this very thread, explicitly happy about that. Especially since it means it takes away agency from others.
They have identified that pets are to be part of every hunter spec, repeatedly. To claim otherwise is being disingenuous. Yes, some of the original views for classes have changed, but this is not that situation: the rework specifically calls out that pets are intended to be the commonality between all specs.
Until Blizzard says otherwise, that remains true.
Then scream at blizzard. Stop flaming people and calling them clowns for expressing their opinion.
And telling you how it is is also not a good point to call them clowns either.
Thats clearly not what the intent of it is saying lol. We both know what it means.
I’m pointing out the fallacy of using these as points of “fact” when they are wildly inconsistent and haven’t been updated in years.
Its wrong in that its oddly specific, when other class pages are insanely vague.
Oof.
I was talking about the eagle.
Hardly anyone wanted this weird middle ground.
Most either wanted no pets or your choice of pet.
You weren’t understanding my point.
To be and required are two completely different things.
And I was mostly saying that to refute him as he continues to flame and call people clowns over his own idea of how it should be and work.
Tbh Im of the stance of choice, but also support no pet.
As long as the pet is a functional part of the spec, I have zero complaints. The point of contention is that the pet has essentially existed for years now causing friction between lone wolf and non lone wolf builds and playstyles. And this without much benefit to actually having the pet in combat outside of utility.
Like at least surv has kill command and such so the pet participates and becomes part of the rotation.
Im doing so, but seems like people dont want that, and they have a bone to pick, about the OPTION, to never come back, and they clash with anyone who says otherwise.
Its not flaming, if they are actually being clowns
Pointing out they are making absurd claims, or flat out lying, isnt supposed to be a “good point” when there is no discussion
Still is not wrong, even with the change of the ability
No no, see, this isnt a fallacy, because those are consistent, the hunter one is the most consistency of all
even if some of then had inconsistencies this is, by no means, a prove to say we should dismiss then entirely, that, is, one fallacy, thinking the whole thing is flawed, therefore should not be used in the argument
How is wrong and oddly specific?
hunters use arrows, guns and polearms, how is that wrong?
IF, the quote was:
Hunters battle their foes at a distance or up close, commanding their pets to attack while they ONLY nock their arrows, fire their guns, or ready their polearms and no other weapons
Yeah, that would be oddly specific, and it would wrong, but the normal quote is 100% on point, hunters do that.
My point stands. There are people here who love the eagle and are happy because it means people they think are wrong, suffer. There are some here who could care less how a class looks, only what the class does. It could loose arrow-shaped fireballs and sing a song every 30s, as long as it did numerically better than it does now.
Blizzard’s own rework roadmap justifies this by stating that pets are what unify hunter specs. Therefore, they are required still if the spec is to be part of the hunter class.
That would have been my preferred choice. I am against removing player choice, especially since I have used my pet as MM on more than one occasion. They could’ve implemented this rework and maintained the player choice that previously existed. All the arguments of “go play BM” or “no, it’s too hard” are not convincing: BM doesn’t play like MM, and the hard work of giving hunters the utility was already done in the very rework they’re defending.
Those people are in the vast minority.
Most are just pointing out the lack of other options and are being labeled as inconsiderate bullies.
Im of the mind making it work period > all.
If it takes removing pets for now for them to fix mm and iron out its class identity, and pets get added back in later or the eagle turns into a ‘pull from stable thing’. So be it.
But its been massively lacking identity so long and it’s just been clunky to play. I think thats why so many are happy with it, its not even about the pet. Its about the rework.
But of course thats impossible to tell without polling.
A lot of the “go bm” comments are coming from a perspective of there is literally no other choice for now.
Thats been my point at least. Not talking down to people or “sucks to suck”. People like the one above turn it into a negative regardless of context. Which makes any kind of convo impossible.
Or worse names, but yes.
Still waiting Dance Studio and a wide range of other ‘promised but never delivered’ features. That’s not even touching on overpromised and underdelivered content that litters the last 20 years.
Suffice to say, my confidence is low. Especially since this change came out of the blue, and is more likely to remain as it is than to give us back the things they’ve taken away.
Nothing about the rework requires them to do what they did. They could’ve fixed these issues and preserved player choice.
When you use the language shared by people who are being deliberately offensive and dismissive, is it any wonder that they treat you as if you share their views?
I have a counter offer for blizzard: give all specs in the game an optional pet.
your kidding arnt you --that happens every day - its called technological advancement . I am an industrial chemist , my job looks nothing like it did last year , yet alone what it was like when I started 45years ago . you have to addapt . same here with specs
Eh at least they did state cosmetics are in the works, so there is that at least.
Unless this was the quickest way to get the update out. Then touch it up later. There is no telling.
Yes, because they say it to be condescending. Context matters. I haven’t been condescending when I say it. Quite literally “what other choice is there right now?”, but because its being said at all. Its being met with name calling.
And tbh that is unnecessary regardless, even if someone is being condescending to you.
I usually just stop talking to them when they act like that. Its pointless to talk to someone who just wants to act like a jerk lol.
The monsters in tv show is like that
From all of my forum reading, talking with people in the game, and perusing the Trueshot Lodge Discord server, the only people who are actually happy about these changes are theory crafters and people who will play whatever the flavor is as long as it does the most damage. From my perspective, that is a minority of the hunter community. Meanwhile, most people who play marksman hunters like having the pet option for a variety of reasons. Some of which RPG, some of which practical.
It feels like, once again, Blizzard doesn’t actually listen to the majority of its players and instead issues changes based on the whims of the 1%. Then they turn around and Pikachu face when people don’t like it.
And Dance Studio was advertised on the WotLK box - still never made it to the game. Path of the Titans was announced in 2010, and it took them until 2016 to bring it into the game, via Legion’s largely similar Artefact powers. Glyphs have been in the game since Cataclysm and have been stagnant for a decade or more.
Ain’t nothing more permanent than a quick fix!