The pushback is the same sort of pushback you’d see toward any solution that doesn’t allow maximizing personal gain. The average person only ‘behaves’ when there is the ever present threat of being socially ostracized. Just look at how people behave the second they have anonymity online.
Negative reinforcement is a stronger deterrent to bad behavior, and positive reinforcement only works if it’s stronger than the natural inclination toward maximizing person gain at any cost. You’d need something that is more rewarding/desirable than making double digit increases in efficiently grinding their score up, because as it works currently, it IS most efficient to eject the second it doesn’t look like the run is going to be perfect. Costing yourself 5-10 minutes, but also costing 20-40 minutes of other people’s time, instead of risking 30-40 minutes for maybe nothing.
That’s a pretty obvious case of disruptive gameplay, there’s already a reporting system for that.
So then why don’t more people make an effort and do better dps when the alternative is being ostracized for not performing? It’s a viable avenue but people won’t take it because they care about themselves and their convenience before the convenience of others, which in this instance means being able to leave an m+ they don’t want to be in due to any number of reasons.
The players have tools to combat this, it’s called forming a regular group. If you only invite people you know will stick around, then people will stick around. Crazy how that works.
It could be that the people you are pugging with only want score and if they see too many deaths, they are bailling.
I also imagine outside of very fringe items, no one is looking for loot in a +12, and finishing the key is a waste of time as far as at least one person in your group is concerned.
Maybe ask before the key starts if people are willing to stay to complete before inserting the key? If it’s your group, make sure people confirm they will stay and replace them if they won’t confirm in chat they will stay.
I get now that M+ doesn’t currently drop Mythic loot and hasn’t for a long time… I had a momentary lapse of reason - perhaps because I was trying to figure out why people were leaving dungeons so often and when they could still be timed in many cases!
I am one of those “Dungeon Junkies” that is trying for 3K IO rating, but not so people will think I’m better than they are - but because I love running M+!!
Also, I want to run with other good players so I can also be a better player… I feel like this is or should be the natural organic progression of game play each “Season or Expansion”. I’ve been running M+ since the inception in Mists… It was called Challenge Mode back then, but it’s changed the game forever - and I think taking an honest look at how we can make it challenging and FUN is so important!! <3
It hasn’t ever dropped it. I don’t get why you keep saying this. Nor should M+ ever drop Mythic gear; it coming from the vault is the best option since M+ isn’t supposed to become the “we go there to farm Mythic gear”, you do M+ because you want to do M+.
Best way to do that is to do M+ with a steady group of people. Make friends, join a community of folks pushing keys, etc…
Yes, it’s not a huge ask to put loot in content itself.
People would be more social and tolerating of failure if progression wasn’t playing for the weekly login lootbox vault. You need to give people agency over their progression if you want them to value such.
Making it play out like a mobile game is worthless, and the ones who remain playing are the sunk cost fallacied players who just want the cosmetic rewards and don’t actually want to be there. This causes the issue where people then only want to play the content if it’s on “easy farm” and are readily toxic as they don’t want to be there, but are still there as they’re too far in with doing weekly chores.
So mythic raid shouldn’t drop mythic gear either then?
Playing for progression is quite literally what many people want. They have fun while doing so, but reducing it to a weekly lootbox they can’t play around is why people have low tolerance and are extremely toxic.
Which many people are trying to find by pugging. The problem is when the experience isn’t a natural grind at someone’s own pace, but say, a mobile game lootbox to play for instead, people are not going to want to find statics for something that feels wholly fake due to said lackof agency.
The problem is removing agency on progression devalues the gameloop itself.
Yeah, people are finding out if they’re going to play content for fun at their own pace, it’s gonna be on farm in a solo instance, as being aggravated by others for timegate loot you can’t play around is experience ruining.
People have learned to play around the weekly lootbox vault and the social aspect and the game as a whole is suffering.
The pugging issue is because people have learned to play the timegates instead of the game itself.
If you want people being friendly and finding meaning in pushing keys, other than having fun, they need to be given agency on their progression. Their tolerance for playing with others has gone into the gutter because it’s playing for the vault timegate.
No, as suggested elsewhere, they improve it while still keeping a form of timegate.
IIRC they tried a poor implementation of this in season 1, where they blocked off m+ and raids entirely instead of capping the ilvl of loot on a timegate from said content directly.
I also think the social aspect hard carried wow despite the subpar timegate systems design, not because of it.
Blame the community not the game. The community made it that way. As soon as you make a mistake everyone just starts trash talking to you. If you are new to tanking good luck coz there is no way for you to lean. Even in normal or heroic dungeons if you go too slow people complain if you don’t pull correct people complain. As a healer if someone dies if your fault, if you don’t dispel, remove curse, CC is also your fault. So why bother play a tank and a healer?
Want to change the community? Blizzard needs to come down hard. Any harassment or threats gets you a 3 day ban first time, then 7 day ban after and 30 day ban. If you still can’t change your behaviour then is permanent ban.
Instead of removing instance ID lockouts off mythic raiding to actually get people to engage with the content legitimately, they decided to keep it bad and monetize boosting instead with how they’re doing dinars.
There’s about to be a lot of 0N 0H 1M profiles.
Oh, and people who only play m+ get to kick rocks and get nothing unless they engage with raiding it seems with the effectively rugged dinars.