Removing Mythic + and Returning to Heroics

Community General Discussion
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Every day I see more and more threads yelling about Mythic plus. Fix this, adjust that, tune the other, here’s my fix, and so on. You know what never needed fixing? Heroics. So in another chat, someone made a suggestion:

So here we are. So Blizz, if you are done listening to the MM “feedback”, I have an idea. Turn Mythic Plus back into a Challenge Mode, where the gear is only 3 ilvls above Heroic Raiding, and Heroic Dungeons. Then they feel like they got a treat for completing some challenge. Think of all the things you could stop wasting time on:

  • No more having to deal with broken scaling from +11 to +12, or any other obvious scaling issues
  • No additional gear is needed. You can simply slap a Mythic stamp and 3 more ilvls on Heroic gear to show the challenge was completed
  • No more mounts, weapons, recolors, etc. that are needed
  • No more complaints about balancing
  • No more complaints about ONE tank and TWO healers being the only “viable classes”

You can keep the e-sports thing and do it once a year for the people who desperately love a challenge, but think about how much development time could be freed up if you got all the way to Heroics… and then stopped. Furthermore, you want the game to bring the player and not the class. So prove it.

We brought the player in TBC, Wrath, Cata, MoP, WoD, and even Legion. But let’s face it, you spend less time on Story and Lore so you can waste it on M+ for folks who want a measuring contest to have some bragging rights. To who I have NO idea. Bragging about this game to anyone is like admitting to being the best Pac-Man player in the world.

Let’s face it. PvP has its place. Heroics have their place. Raiding has ALWAYS had a place. The only thing that feels obviously out of place, drastically broken, and crafted with the top 10% in mind is Mythics. Why not cater to everyone with better Heroics, impressive campaigns, and genuine compelling Lore? You could move the M+ team over to Dungeons and raids, and give the Story team more time to develop something great.

You know what Classic was popular? Like, aside from rose colored goggles and nostalgia from kids who played after school each day. The story. They were compelled to see where the RPG was taking them. What did the journey look like? Newsflash, some of us are more interested in the story, and the journey, than we ever were in the Treadmill, which is why Heroics were perfect. We could cap off gear, and then play more of the story from the other faction.

So the real fix for Mythic Plus… removing it as a pillar.

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I find your idea intriguing and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

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Why should raiding be the only avenue of gearing for pve?

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Go for it. Make Mythic dungeons. Now give it a weekly lockout on bosses.

Naw jk. M+ has merit. I’m not sure I like the kind of players it produces but it’s definitely nice for gearing up a character.

Except… now Delves are a thing lol.

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didn’t read all that, but people like M+. WoW players just love to hate the game they sink hundreds of hours into.

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I see threads yelling about all sorts of things every day but that doesn’t actually tell me those threads are inspired by a problem that both

  1. Exists.
  2. Requires or would actually benefit from a solution.

Fwiw I go for KSH each season now having graduated from KSM in S4 of DF. Some of the things people complain about in M+ are certainly valid complaints but many of them can be solved with a personal reframe on the content as opposed to a systemic change being necessary.

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But did it?

Why is having more content inaccessible better?

How will that make current WoW better by having a greater divide between the haves and have nots?

Why is making WoW less accessible considered a play that will bring in more players?

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The real fix for Mythic+ is to look at what the problem is, and looking at a solution to those problem.

And Mythic+ existing in-game is not a problem.

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I’d argue that isn’t true as M+ becomes a baseline for both how hard and rewarding OTHER content needs to be in order to prevent that content from challenging the dominance of M+.

Unfortunately a tiny percentage of players feel obligated to engage with any content that provides any layer of character progression and they are very vocal about not actually enjoying 95% of the game and only engaging with it to get to the 5% that they do enjoy.

So anything that aids progression in M+ is seen as a chore or obstacle to enjoying M+. Same can be said for raids though so I guess this is more about mythic track being a “problem” than any modes specifically.

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I think the main issue is more of how Blizzard has to treat everything more like it is an esports event, imho.

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I think having a rational discussion about risk vs reward is fine though.

The Risk vs Reward system is a cornerstone of WoW, and was before the existence of M+. Its also the cornerstone of RPGs and MMORPGs.

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I kind of wanted MM to lose its pet. I think I would’ve finally played one >.>

Shhh, I don’t want to hear it’s optional now. Let me embrace the hypocritical negativity.

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I agree but would simply say that risk has regularly increased since ~Legion while reward has stayed fairly consistent. I don’t believe anything in the game was as hard as mythic raiding or even +10s in Wrath and yet end game loot was still end game loot.

Things that are more challenging than anything that existed at that time are seen as “mid tier difficulty” now while top end rewards have just been pushed up the ladder of difficulty.

So I think many have just become numb to how challenging the game can be when pursuing those top rewards and don’t see how lopsided risk vs reward is in comparison to earlier (and equally/more successful) days for this game.

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I would say that the playerbase has increased in average player ability. So for the level of risk to remain similar, it would have to increase in difficulty from that time period.

I think its ok today to have discussion on what the rewards should be from things across different difficulties.

I assume this probably has a tie in to delves. I think its ok for delves to have lesser rewards than m+ and raiding.

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I totally agree that it’s fine for delves to have lesser rewards than what M+ and raiding cap out on. Which is why I won’t make arguments for mythic track in delves. I certainly don’t see the benefit to tying my own laces by arguing that they should be nerfed however.

It’s more of a comment on early season chicken littles claiming the sky is falling for M+ because delves exist and have rewards. Not an implication that delve rewards need to improve.

It is simply true though that less challenging content must be carefully handled so as not to rattle the M+ house of cards.

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Less challenging content should be handled carefully because its less challenging content. M+ aside.

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Maybe the only way to save WoW is remove WoW.

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Send it to the cornfield.

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