when I started playing 2 months into Vanilla and until I took my break at the very end of MoP (7 year break to the beginning of Shadowlands)…… the excitement, dopamine hit was the RAID…… getting the best gear from the raid. The excitement and hype made everyone want to log on and play. People rushing home just to log. So many people played and wanted to play to the point that you couldn’t log on and hate to wait.
Engagement was WAY higher then than it is now because of we literally had to hunt for our food. You HAD to kill the boss just for the CHANCE…… people appreciated the gear they got and had to keep. I was hyped every week to raid ICC and Throne of Thunder because of the loot and how good it was. Ulduar was so good I didn’t even care at times about loot as much as killing the bosses and seeing more of that beautiful raid.
We didn’t have Vault or Mythic +/plus and the game was at its most enjoyable and subscriber height.
That (having to raid and kill bosses) also made the skill level higher because of the fact you HAD to kill it. Now days you don’t even have to time a mythic +/plus key to get a vault which is guaranteed gear. People just doing “completion runs” taking 90 minutes just to get a vault. Like a 3rd place trophy. Race to World first is cheesy with splits. Back in the past people were still using last tier’s trinkets, or wrists…… the game was much more challenging in that regard but better because it didn’t create entitled, sensitive, spoiled, brats out of players like today.
My suggestion is to totally get rid of Great Vault and to limit mythic gear to only Mythic +/plus timed runs. Heroic dungeons can still give heroic loot but any Mythic +/Plus dungeon must be timed which means M0’s are also timed. Make having purple loot somewhat meaningful again. I also suggest tier to be drop only from raid. No Catalyst type systems. Let the people who want hand outs cry.
People may complain but it was casual players back then in Burning Crusade, Wrath, Cata and they loved the game. It was PVP only players then as well. People actually WANTED to log on. It wasn’t a drop off in play mid way through a expansion. Blizzard didn’t have to make a Diablo or another game just for people to play it for 2 weeks and run back to WoW like the current trend.
Those 2 suggestions will make the game and overall experience great like how it used to be. It will also give developers more inspiration to make better raids and tier set bonus ideas being they won’t have to worry about Great Vault and all the other pacifier systems.
What and why are these suggestions horrible when data shows when non of those systems were in game, over all engagement and morale was at its height. Data actually shows this. Tons of videos have been made on the topic.
The vault was put in as a pity system due to the need for accelerated gearing that the seasons required of players. Does it suck? Sure. Could it be improved? Sure. Would it be better if it was replaced with the Dinars system from SL? Most definitely. But blizz don’t want deterministic gearing as it harms their MAU’s.
You are interpreting the data based on your personal bias.
Sure, WoW had the most players then…but it wasn’t solely based on the loot system. I mean, the loot system remained largely unchaged as players started leaving in Cata. We have the data to prove it. Does that mean players disliked the loot system…no. it means your interpretation of the data is flawed.
You speak to exactly my point of “entitled, senstive, spoiled, brats”. We didn’t have non of those things in terms of systems like Vault and M +/Plus.
Now overall QoL is a different topic and encompasses of different things. But if you are just referring to those 2 specific systems as “QoL” then we obviously didn’t need them and the game experience was amazing.
But when you give people cake and cookies for little to nothing then they are gonna expect it.
Raiding has been replaced by M+ as the real end game because it’s a more rewarding challenge (the biggest challenge with raiding has always been finding an appropriate amount of competent people), doesn’t require a set schedule that a large group of people can attend every week, and can be done in bite sized play sessions at one’s own leisure. It’s not 2005 and people are too busy to be raiding 20 hours a week on a set schedule. So how about “absolutely not” for your suggestions…?
Not personal bias. They actually did surveys then and now. And again engagement and the desire to play are symbiotically linked. People ACTUALLY wanted to play and it shows. Its not my personal bias. You have many many many people doing videos on the topic. Even that pessimist Asmongold spoke on engagement and over all feel of the game being better than it is now.
So multiple peoples personal bias. It doesnt matter. What matters is that you incorrectly are placing the shift in engagement solely on the loot system…when that isnt the problem.
I would argue that going back to a Wraith style loot system would kill the game. We now know that things can be better because it is better, now… People will no longer accept going weeks without loot. People no longer want to be forced to raid.
And at this point, WoW cant afford to experiment with reverting back to bad systems
Raiding is still end game. The Wow Channel on Twitch gets upward to 40-100k viewers every day of the Race to Worlds First… everyday… then Liquid, Echo, and Method’s channels are get ranges of 10k-20k viewers EACH which many of the viewers bounce between channels.
NO ONE IS WATCHING GREAT PUSH. MDI never get Race to World’s first numbers.
Look at the on site set ups and crew teams they have for Race to World’s First. Each team has there own separate media teams covering. People getting flown all over the place to be in place for atleast a week covering the Race. Commercials, Sponsorships. Its big business. Dratnos got half his passport book stamped because of the Race alone.
Raid is unequivocally king. Not even close. Raid is and will be end game. The numbers show. The trail of money shows.
Your whole argument in this comment is Twitch viewership? Yeah, you’re trolling. Good luck creating the echo chamber you so obviously desire.
How many viewers do people get for raids on Twitch outside of the race to world first? It’s a laughable amount. If we’re talking about Twitch viewership then it’s time to shut down retail WoW and force everybody to go play hardcore WoW.
I also love how confidently you state “raid is unequivocally King” in a thread you made whining because it’s not.
…so what? How does some random taking 90 minutes and getting a good reward in the vault change my experience timing a run and also getting a good reward? I already get the feeling of prestige from the achievement itself + the rating bonus + maybe a portal if it’s a 10.
