Currently anything under a 12 has about a 30-40 second combat time per pack. This is really unsatisfying for ramp classes. Personally this really limits my enjoyment of the game.
By the time the key has enough health to do a ramp, it becomes dangerous to the point where I can’t let something slip by (like a kick/stop/dispel) so I don’t have much time if any to enjoy my rotation in these larger keys.
This is one of the biggest reasons I stopped playing M+ this season. Everything felt either like a normal leveling dungeon or a tier 8 jailer’s gauntlet run. Nothing in between.
Now there will be even less in between. Since a 12 will be a 13, this means we won’t really see enough health to do full rotations until key level 14. I don’t get why this idea wasn’t immediately shot down in the boardroom?
To clarify for all the people misunderstanding, I am wanting the mechanical difficulty and the rotational difficulty to be proportional. Meaning sometimes you fail a key because of mechanics, and sometimes you fail a key because of low dps. Currently, you only fail a key because of mechanics.
I know you don’t know me, but if I have lost interest in M+ then blizzard has a real problem.
At the end of the season I’m usually still pushing, while my 140ish bnet friends have mostly quit. I have an EU account so that I can do tournaments with friends over there. I publish weakauras. There are few people who are more bought-in to M+ than me.
But I find the “challenge” in M+ to have a more and more annoying tilt to it, like this. The new “challenge” in M+ will be figuring out how to stunt rotations on ramp classes (or just play a non ramp class)
They are forcing the play style to be more simplistic, and to more simplistic specs except in the very highest of keys. They don’t realize the implications.
I’m amazed that is the conclusion you arrived to here. I guess everyone has an opinion. Though I see your replies to everyone and you constantly try to bait people. Welcome to my ignored list.
So without looking at data from the PTR then, you’re basing this thread on the assumption that they are shooting for a similar combat time target to the current season? Do I understand that correctly? Or are you assuming that the 10% means that they are shooting for under the current season and that’s what you object to?
Ret is the perfect spec for this kind of content. I used to play ret coincidentally. And if I play with a ret in my group now, my damage meters will look sad. The reason is also the answer to your question. My ramp requires 6s of a channel, and then about 5-10 gcds beyond that depending on how much of a ramp is needed. If I can channel outside of combat it does mean I will need the full 10 gcds to do optimal damage (without getting into it)
by the time my ramp is done, the ret paladin is already halfway through wings and the lower-health mobs are nearly dead. Now that I am in cds, my target then dies before my cd’s expire. One of my major cd’s has a 30s duration so in a 30s pull I am not getting great use out of it.
For me (and the group) to survive most bigger pulls I need to be pressing a non-damage button about every 3rd GCDs. It becomes a logistical challenge that is not fun.
A healthy mix of blasting and mechanics seems way more fun to me than constant mechanics or you get one-shot
Well the point is that the 10% across the board health reduction on the PTR has a context that is rather important to the discussion. You say the average right now is 30-40 seconds: the implications of this 10% nerf are quite different if on the PTR the, average was 50-60 seconds versus if it was the 30-40 seconds you say it is on live.
If you think that Blizz’s ‘target’ for average time per pack (and thus the reason for the health nerf) should be higher than it is currently, then that’s fine. Make that argument. If you’ve been on the PTR and the pace feels just right to you, then sure, object to the across the board reduction based on that. Objecting to a health adjustment based on incomplete information, though, strikes me as a bit like salting your food before tasting it. If you’re basing this thread on the assumption that Season 2 will be “underseasoned” (to your taste) just like Season 1, or even more so- then you haven’t made that clear.
That’s a first, asking for a nerf to be reverted is “harder”?
I hear what you’re saying and ret is doing really well, but at that point I might as well just play whatever is actually meta instead of having a fun toon to dork out on.
I don’t do arguments of conjecture like this. In my experience the PTR feels about the same health-wise, though I haven’t logged in since this change. If YOU have been playing the PTR and feel like mobs have too much health then say so.
However it sounds like you are trying to raise an objection regarding my experience in something where you yourself have no experience.
EDIT: can we talk about the music though? It’s so good. That’s something they’re doing right, getting good music adds so much
Agreed. While I do want there to be a challenge in staying alive, I want my dps to have significance too. Right now it feels like unless you’re running a world first key dps basically isn’t a factor
To be fair, Aff hasn’t been good in M+ since spicy artifact traits in Legion, aside from a couple seasons where they were good basically only in high fortified keys. I’m doing most of my Lock keys on Demo right now and it’s a heck of a lot better than trying it as Aff.
And Ret is just stupidly brokenly op at lower levels this season.
Gotcha. That’s really all I was asking for clarification on.
These are rather different concerns that get addressed for rather different reasons.
At least among good players/coordinated groups. In low/casual keys, the compression of key levels has really shined a light on how many bad DPS there are out there. Frankly, it seems to have driven DPS out at a rate greatly disproportionate to the healers and tanks scared off by the M+ level compression- again, at least at the lower key levels.
I don’t think this is necessarily a fair read on it. There are certain specs where it just feels really bad when mobs die so quickly you can’t even get rolling. “How long should a trash pull last, on average” is a perfectly reasonable conversation to have, and different specs have quite different preferences on what would be the most optimal or fun for them. For example:
-If I’m playing Arcane, Balance or Affliction, I prefer a bit longer so I have time to ramp up before everything dies.
-If I’m playing Frost DK, 40-45 sec or so is nice so I have Pillar up at the start of every pull and I don’t run into the “there are a couple mobs that are close to dead, but not THAT close, and I’m doing basically nothing in terms of damage while their health slowly whittles down, but I really don’t want to start the next pull without Pillar…”
-If I’m playing Demo, I really just want to keep pulling and keep the momentum of the rotation going.
-If I’m playing Assassination, I really want to separate pulls so I can re-stealth.
etc.
It’s not just “feeling better on the meters,” it’s “feeling better” period.