Removing 10% health from M+ is a really bad idea

Maybe this is just an agree to disagree moment, but I think high stakes logistical challenges are the fun part. Failing and winning anyway, whether by out gearing or low tuning, is boring. Hitting something like a target dummy and just running the meter up is boring.

My mindset is also one of the group working together to win, not competing against each other. If someone is melting aoe packs, great, that helps us win. If someone else is decursing and showing up with big single target damage on bosses, great, that helps us win. I don’t see why everyone is always so focused on the individual damage meter, but then again, my preferred role as a tank is all about supporting the group, with damage output basically at the bottom of my priorities.

It seems like you’re playing a paladin. Are you playing any ramp classes this season? Have you ever? It seems like you’re commenting on something that you’ve never experienced and don’t understand.

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I have played prot paladin almost exclusively in M+. I played warlock for 10 years in raids, pvp, and the very beginning of M+. I have played every spec, if only to complete the mage towers in legion.

“Never experienced” is fair, but “don’t understand” implies I lack the ability to conceptualize what you’re talking about, and that isn’t an issue. Instead of ad hominem, try addressing what I’m saying. It seems like you’re driven by competition on the damage meter instead of cooperatively completing the dungeon, and doing whatever needs to be done to do it.

There are 39 specs, and it would be a boring game if they were all homogenized to the point of interchangeability. If you want to be the biggest damage all of the time you’ll need to switch class or spec each season. If you want to work with a group to complete keys, you can excel at whatever role is expected for your class or spec’s niche, even if it doesn’t put you at the top of the meter.

Maybe address any problems with that argument instead of telling me I lack the experience to understand something that really isn’t all that complicated.

That’s kinda the point. If your spec is built to need longer combat times to function properly then it’s just not that much fun to be dragged around by your group. You say “You should be happy performing your niche” try playing a shadow priest or moonkin in anything under a 12. You feel like a paperweight.

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I’m not really addressing the lower keys though, I’ve been focused on the statement he made that once keys are high enough for things to be alive for the ramp time, there are other responsibilities that, if ignored, are fatal, so it interrupts the rotation. I shouldn’t need to tell either of you, that’s the job. Make up for it while aoe classes are wet noodling the bosses.

Even on lower keys, less effective damage classes can focus on the utility that makes the run easier for everyone.

You seem to have mistaken ramp for single target. You don’t suddenly get to “Make up for it” on bosses, you just compete, and then go back to being useless the rest of the time.

Yeah as a Priest I’ll get right on tha… Oh.

Stuff getting deleted before you get the chance to spread your wings isn’t fun, and the level of key at which you have to engage in before that stops happening is too high.

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What would the fix be for that? Is there a way to address that with dungeon design or would it require an entire redesign of classes?

If the trash lives longer, wouldn’t that make aoe burst classes even more in demand to meet the timer?

That’s a fair criticism. I was under the impression that ramp classes had a higher single target damage ceiling to account for the build up time. If that isn’t the case, then I can see that as more of a problem.

Not really; it would even the gap between specs with stronger burst AoE vs stronger sustained AoE, but of course it would depend on how you pull the dungeon too.

This is wrong. Look, imagine that people can actually contribute ideas for the good of the game and not for a completely selfish purpose. I know this may be hard to picture but there are many people out there on these forums that do that.

It seems like it regardless of your experience or not. That’s why I brought it up. If you sounded like you did actually understand I wouldn’t have asked.

That’s not what I’m asking for here either and is out of left field. To reiterate, I am asking that there is enough health on mobs that ramp classes can ramp. But to address your point, completely giving up on balance because it is hard is silly. They can’t balance everything perfectly but they certainly can keep things closer than 60%+ apart like they are now.

You still don’t sound like you understand.

Translation: “You don’t get to have fun, the rest of us will have fun.”

Come on. People don’t want to be secondary in keys. People sign up for world of warcraft to feel like heros, not butlers.

You need to learn the concept of damage profiles. For example ret paladin does well because all of their bust is up front, they don’t need a ramp. The long the tank waits between pulls the more likely the pally will be able to burst right at the start of the pull.

20 seconds later, they are doing very little damage.

Alternatively a ramp class like arcane mage will not be doing damage when the pull starts. About 10 seconds into the pull they start doing damage, and then about 25-30 seconds into the pull the highest damage point happens (when almost everything is dead so the aoe damage goes away)

Look you can pretend you’re better than everyone else but most of us mere mortals do have fun when the damage meters look better. I don’t really want to do M+ on the spec I enjoy because I can parse a 99 while an enh parses an 80 and the enh will destroy me on the meters. I feel like dead weight. I am doing other things with my time and bought another game.

He’s not asking for it to be harder. He’s saying that mob health should be sufficient to actually complete a ramp for the specs that do have ramp.

AoE burst classes peak early then average out. Ramp classes peak a bit later and then reach a similar average.

Longer kill times tend to just give them both parity, not favour one significantly over the other.

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Totally agree, it really turns me off playing with certain specs as certain specs because I feel useless. Perhaps they need to reign in the burst capability of some specs too.

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How long should it take when you outgear the content?

What ilevel outgears an 11?

lol next thing you tell me is that I’m not ready for 11’s. “so sorry” is in every thread saying the same thing

Not even close to what I was saying. How exactly would you “not be ready” if the argument is that the trash is dying too fast?

Being maxed out in 639 for 11s is being over geared.

Are you saying that people need to be 639 ilvl to do great damage? Cause they certainly don’t.

Your point that some people out-gear the content is about as compelling as someone saying “there are hats”

Wow. You are so dense it’s amazing. How many more circular arguments can you come up with instead of looking at the plain text?

My first post was asking you a simple question of how long an encounter should last. You responded with a non-sense question followed by dragging in completely unrelated past references about “get good” which was in no way shape or form implied.

I then even tried to go back on-topic by directly answering your question about how being 639 is overgearing 11s. To no one’s surprise you came back with another off topic gem.

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We both know your original point is completely flimsy. It was a feeble attempt at trolling, as you were trying to say I was bad and needed high ilvl to do the low level content.

When we all know that you don’t need to be over 620 to do great damage in M+, let alone 639.

If your trolling falls flat then you’re really just trolling yourself

My “original point”? You mean me asking you a simple question for clarification that you still have not answered?

No, in your head it’s trolling because it’s clear you are too stuck in the past and exemplified by your response. You are so unable to stick to the topic it’s hilarious.

Again another statement I wasn’t even talking about.

I’ve seen you reply to hundreds of people the same way now. It’s all the same. You try to bring up a question of some sort like you did here, then you find some opening to tell the person they’re bad. I’m not in the forums on a daily basis but every time I’m in here there you are posting the same old crap.

I would rather someone like you not think that I am smart