Remove voidform

Classes Priest
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Remove voidform

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who’s to say what they replace it with makes you happy? have you bothered to compare the rest of the specs in this game?

btw; in that process let’s severely disappoint those generally happy with it (outside of powered power dependency which is another topic)

so even if the split is 50/50, the other half is unhappy+new design may only make the half the other half happy and lead to 75% of shadow priests unhappy

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I find it really hard to believe that 50% of people are happy with voidform. You’re absolutely correct saying that whatever they could replace it with (they wont) could be worse. That’s a risk I would be willing to take and would just play another class. If voidform isnt “fixed” or replaced in shadowlands I will play something else. I realize it’s currently “only alpha” but current shadow priest is literally unplayable…we have been down this “only alpha” road before.

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Could implement the talent that just lets you hold cap insanity with out going into form and it just increases your damage. js

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You can just go back and say what about everyone who liked how shadow was before legion being disappointed lol. That comment has no weight.

No one who played shadow priest before legion/bfa was walking around thinking, “gee I really hope my spec gets completely redesigned to becoming a ramp-up nightmare where sometimes I’m forced to literally kill my self to do damage!”

In a perfect world I’d see void form tossed into the gutter. Blizz won’t remove it because they are stubborn, but they absolutely need to realize that it needs heavy modification. As the only dps spec for priest, shadow with talents should support at least two different playstyles within it. With that in mind, blizz can keep the framework of void form around for those who like it, and reintroduce a modified style of MoP/cata spriest for those who want a more traditional shadow experience. Which can relatively simply be updated to keep in with the insanity resource.

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We been through this before you need to BACK YOUR FACTS/STATISTICS WITH DATA.

again where are you getting these statistics from. You can’t just throw numbers and pretend they are facts there needs to be solid data to back it up.
Based on the Forums (the only solid evidence/data we have) most of the community are not happy with voidform. so i don’t know where you got the 50/50 split.

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This was a concept, I said “even IF the split was 50/50”. The forums are NOT solid evidence “most” of the community are unhappy. This is because of ‘self selection bias’ You can read about that on the dataschool website or google it more yourself if you like.

or I’ll copy paste it for you:
Example:

You send out a survey to all of your customers to gauge their satisfaction with your product. While this seems like it would provide for good feedback, you are likely to get responses from people who are very opinionated, very angry, or people who are trying to waste time at work.

The only point in my post wasn’t to make claim that I KNOW the exact split, but to challenge the assumption that it’s the majority that want voidform gone.

Shadow priest I encounter outside of mediums designed for ‘compliants here please’ like forums and discords is vastly different in tone. My entire point is simply this: you don’t know what the majority is no more than I do. But I do have my impression that it’s NOT the majority that’s unhappy based on my experiences with others outside of the forums and discord

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so repeating the same mistake with a new group of people is a good thing to do? All your comment really means is pre-legion fans have weight and legion+fans have no weight…hmmmm

Listen, fans of vanilla were not wrong; but neither are fans of retail wow- this debate is no different.

I will add some context to myself, I’ve played this game 12 years…fans of the legion+ shadow design has nothing to do with how long this game as been played. My priest is from 2009 btw. What I want people to realize is…we cannot bring back the past. I anything blizzard needs to stop overhauling things so much that it creates these issues to begin with.

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One thing that is actually factual is that shadow priests do not perform well within current gameplay mechanics. Their lack of ability to move while doing damage and the requirement to move while doing damage in the games encounters does not work. The only time shadow does DECENT damage is during long raid boss fights, even then we are not near the top performing specs. The effort required to do average dps as shadow is far beyond what it takes other specs (obviously there are other nonperforming specs in the game).

I realize this is not the fun factor but is simply numbers. Personally shadow is not fun or rewarding to play in my opinion, currently.

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Maybe read the rest of my post because I literally addressed this lol.

But to add, it is a video game and blizzard could easily bring back a past design, they just never/very rarely do. They would rather keep trying new things that might not work than go back to something that does.

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After doing some research I’m utterly shocked that apparently you can base your argument on hypotheticals. I still strongly believe that hypotheticals should not be the base of your argument because it does not add anything productive to the conversation.

what if the split is 90/10, with the majority not liking voidform and it remains the way it is. should the majority just shut up and bear with it because the minority like it?

if the split is 50/50 and everyone likes the new rework.

what if…what if…what if…

Hypotheticals don’t add anything to the conversation.

I didn’t say the Forums are solid evidence that most of the community is not happy.

what I said is…

meaning that the forums are the only solid evidence we have that you can go and check yourself and based on them you can tell the majority of the community is not happy.

Everyone can post on the forums. so where are the people who like vodiform? you can’t just say that angry people tend to complain therefore there voices don’t count.

The majority of the forum is complaining about voidform. The forum is the only accessible solid evidence/data about the community’s opinion. Therefore the majority of the community based on the forums are not happy with the voidform.

This is how you make an argument. You base it on factual evidence not hypotheticals.

WITH WHAT?..hypotheticals? it’s simple if people loved voidform then they should be here discussing it and explaining why they love it with the people who don’t. the forums are open to everyone.

but there’s only 3 who like voidform…so what does that say about the community?

your own argument can be used on you. You are biased because you only surround yourself with like-minded people.

Impressions/feelings are not facts. I feel like you are a self-absorbed person who wants the rest of the shadow priest community to suffer just because you like how the spec is now…does that mean its a fact?

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I love void form, don’t want to go back to any other iteration of it.

Just needs some fixes or a small revamp, but never reverting to wod spriest or anything before that.

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That’s good to hear, do you mind sharing any specifics about what you like now versus prior designs?

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NO I’m trying to stick up for those I encounter who are happy, so stop attacking me personally when I’ve not done anything to invalidate your pov or character as a human being.

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The voidform feels meaningful and it feels like a true transformation similar to old warlocks metaform that changes/hastens your playstyle.

The problem I see now it making that voidform matter in the grand scheme of things, as a mechanic it is meaningful, but its performance has been shotty as of late and unfriendly to raid and dungeon mechanics.

I think we should be given more movement options while in void form to make it more meaningful and less of a turret for when the sitiuation calls for it, surrender to madness is not a good solution for this unless u want to make it baseline and a voidform only ability like void bolt.

Also old spriest was just to simple and I liked how it evolved. I like embracing the new when it represents a good idea that has a radical gaming changing dynamic such as a transformation.

I am apprehensive of “origin” loyalists as I call them, as when a playstyle is first created for a spec they never want it to change and just have small deviations to it.

I think this mindset hurts the game and that the current playstyle for spriest is meaningful,fresh and truly different among all other classes and specs, it just suffers performance issues which can be fixed or even expanded upon to make voidform more meaningful and unique.

I hate demon hunter and by extension its meta form because it is a fire and forget ability that doesnt alter the playstyle, it was better served on warlock.

Demon hunter itself also brings nothing new to the game and its rotation is painfully simple, it is just a simpler spec for warriors that is more flashier.

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first of all I didn’t attack you that was an example of how feelings/impressions are not facts that you should base your argument on.

that’s precisely what I’m asking you not to do. talk about yourself. express YOUR opinion and let others express there own.

no one asked you to stick up for them. it’s an open forum anyone can respond.

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you choose to not take my recommendation and look up self selection bias and what it means for a data set to be reliable. i.e. the forums. I choose to comment here to educate you all on this concept rather than drawing poor conclusions about this debate as a whole. I am allowed to do this; as being productive to the debate. Discouraging that is kinda silly to me.

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All you elves do is fight, we Vulpera are above such petty squabbles.

You’re even both alliance!

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I think you didn’t take your own advice and look it up. the Forums are as unbiased as it could get. ANYONE can post and respond to any post.

No you’re not. what you’re doing is gaslighting 101. “We believe” when it’s you who believe “A lot of us…” when it’s only you.

so again talk about YOURSELF and let people talk about THEMSELVES

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I’m going to explain why Voidform is not only one of the best mechanics for Shadow Priests, but one of the best mechanics in the game. That’s a big conceit, I know, but there is a good reason for it and I hope you read on whether you agree with me or not.

Before I do that, however, I want to make it clear that the tuning of Voidform - the speed at which insanity is gained/lost along with the benefits of being in Voidform - is a massive problem that absolutely needs to be resolved. I understand the frustration and feel it myself when I play the spec.

So, why is Voidform so great?

First, its an incredibly novel form of resource management. Other than Breath of Sindragosa (a Frost DK talent), there is nothing else like it in the game. Whether you love or hate the mechanic itself, you won’t really get the experience of playing a Shadow Priest with any other class or spec.

Of course, just because something is unique, doesn’t mean it’s fun. So, what makes Voidform fun? Conceptually, Voidform is a mini-game. When you enter into Voidform, you’re pressing play and going for a “high score” (duration in Voidform). The longer you play that mini-game and the higher your “score” gets, the greater your reward. Even as broken as the tuning is currently, I think most of us can agree getting real-time rewards for better game play is a fun experience.

Right about now you might be asking if Voidform is so great and unique and fun, why is it so frustrating and terrible to play? It’s a fair question and I actually agree it isn’t very fun right now, but I don’t think the problem is the Voidform mechanic itself: the problem are the rewards for playing the Voidform mini-game.

In Legion, a player who executed their Voidform abilities with skill and perfection could get a massively “high score”. As they hit abilities at just the right time, they were rewarded with faster and faster game play. As it got more and more difficult to juggle their rotation, they were churning out nearly insta-cast Mind Blasts and Void Bolt cooldowns spinning like mad; knowing that even one false move would end the carousel of destruction. Finally, the massive Voidform would crash and the memory of that exhilarating game play would drive them towards another round of carnage. It was amazing. It was fun.

In BfA, that same player could execute a perfect Voidform and do everything they did in Legion and what would they have to show for it? Very little. Voidform just didn’t last long enough to grant its rewards in the form of fast-paced hyper nitro boosted game-play. You know what that feels like? It feels bad.

So, what’s wrong with Voidform? It’s not rewarding. The mistake developers made was thinking the reward was hitting that Void Eruption button and going into Voidform. That’s not rewarding. Anyone can do that. It makes Voidform no different than any other builder/spender.

You know what is rewarding? Getting to stay in Voidform awhile because you played your class well. It’s experiencing the joy of a 1.5 sec cast becoming 0.3 seconds and coming off cooldown twice as fast. It’s about that exciting, frenetic gameplay that makes us want to get back into Voidform and see if we can get a higher score.

So, how do give players that reward of amped-up gameplay without breaking the game by repeating the StM Voidform that existed in Legion? Here is a two step suggestion:

  1. Bring back Voidforms with the potential to be long or short based on player agency and let those Voidforms have impactful haste benefits.

  2. Balance those potentially massive Voidforms with diminishing returns.

For example:

Voidform Stacks 1-10 grant 4% bonus haste per stack.
Voidform Stacks 11-20 grant 2% bonus haste per stack.
Voidform Stacks 21-30 grant 1% bonus haste per stack.
Voidform Stacks 31-40 grant 0.5% bonus haste per stack.
etc…

This way going from 14 to 20 stacks would result in an increase of +24% haste
while going from 34 to 40 would result in an increase of only +3% haste.

Of course, tuning would absolutely change these number values but you get the idea.

Whatever the change they decide to make, I hope Blizzard sticks with Voidform and realizes what makes it fun has less to do with dealing massive damage as it does with how it plays when you get to go really really fast.

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