This is already how it works.
So you just want more loot? Is that it? Higher keys drop more loot you know. I did a 21 tonight. Didn’t time it and we got like 5/6 bits of loot I don’t remember.
I’m okay with removing the timer BUT:
If you remove the timer, the dungeon gear caps will have to go higher. Instead of capping at a 15 for a 475 (this Xpac) it would need to be a 20 or so on and so forth. Because the timer allows you to increase the difficulty of the dungeon. With no timer, if it takes you two hours you still get that increase. So they’d have to make max reward higher up the keystone list to compensate. This would only be cool because then everyone would have incentives to push to 20 (other than epeen stroking) instead of doing their 15-16 for the week and logging off (like I’m currently doing at this rate).
That being said, I don’t really care one way or the other. Either system works for me.
I didn’t mean them to be insulting, but I feel as though many of the suggestions were vague. Along the lines up “just come up with new abilities for NPCs” or “redo cd timers”.
You know the actual content difficulty insofar as how tightly tuned the dungeon or raid is has pretty much always dictated that for us. M+ is the only system that has incorporated speed into whether you’re a good player or not.
You could make the new M+ weekly cap to be 20 or 25 which would cut a lot of people out of those rewards and I’m 100% ok with that. Or they could also make M+ scale harder to keep the plebs doing lower keys.
Which, of course, is why pug groups aren’t prone to exploding if it becomes evident they won’t time the key at all. They say “Oh well at least we’re getting 2 whole pieces of loot for this!” and keep working. Because it’s just that rewarding of a system.
It’s about perception. The reason people hate on WF/TF is because the perception of what it means for lesser players getting better loot because they were lucky is absurd in some player’s eyes. We all know an LFR hero isn’t going to walk out with a full mythic raid set, but the fact that some garbage player may be walking around with the BiS trinket is legitimately upsetting to some people (and I agree with them).
In what world is M+ ever going to be irrelevant.
And bosses in dungeons have also had wipe mechanics to it. Remove the timer and the Mythic dungeon system is back to emulating the way raid encounters work. The entire dungeon is no longer the encounter as the comparison to raiding always goes.
See above.
Weird, I didn’t know you were always guaranteed to finish an untimed key in the current version. Speaking of wasting your time…what happens if you give up on a dungeon partway through right now?
How much loot do you get for that? It’s on the tip of my tongue…
I wouldn’t even have keys anymore. Walk into the dungeon, set the difficulty, and go.
It’s not really about wanting more loot. It’s about wanting a straightforward loot system. I killed a boss, a piece of loot drops, someone gets it. Yay us. Kill 5 bosses get 5 pieces of loot, kill 3 get 3. It’s the same reason we’re all uppity about corruption and WF/TF. Can’t I just get a piece of loot and be done with it Blizzard?
And I realize it’s very similar to the current model, but I think the perception of kill 5 bosses get 5 pieces of loot and get extra loot for timing it is better than “Finish a dungeon and get 5 pieces of loot unless you didn’t time it in which case subtract 1-3 pieces of loot based on your timer and also if you’re doing a high enough key you get +20% extra loot chance per extra level so you do the math and figure out how much loot you can get based on how well you play”
Honestly the addition of loot for still timing a dungeon was something I threw out during this thread. I think creating some sort of reward structure for timing dungeons could be done, whether it’s actual loot or titles or transmog or mounts or whatever.
Ehh…I don’t find that legitimately upsetting. I may have a healthier, or at least less invested, outlook on the whole thing. I don’t care about your equipment even a little.
Plenty of people bail on bad keys in pugs. Getting rid of the timer still wouldn’t make me want to spend god only knows how much longer in a key if the healer lets people die 6 times on the first 2 packs of a Grievous week Waycrest. I already know what Sisters is going to be like. No way am I staying for that one.
ps. the death of RNG forging is going to hit keys HARD. Good luck to all puggers.
Maybe if you weren’t trying so hard to be a smartarse, you’d see that I said you are able to, not guaranteed.
The point still stands. The current system with loot and the dropped key in less time overall is a better opportunity to get gear than spending 2-3 hours in one run, and if you really want to take 3 hours, you can also still do that.
I don’t want my weekly key for the chest to take 2 hours because we are waiting for lust. No thanks.
Your answer above had nothing to do with the fact that you already get am extra piece of loot for timing a key.
No it’s what already exists in the game.
So you want m+ with no timers to have a reward structure for timing them… Even though there are no timers?.. Um wtf?
Uh you didn’t say anything of the sort. You said the proposition (which seemed to refer to the fact that you may not complete a dungeon) was worse than completing an untimed key. You’re very capable of just having the dungeon implode and not finish the key at all in either system. And my point was that if you don’t complete a key in the current system you walk out with zero loot.
It might if you really wanted trinket X off the boss.
Of course the only issue I can see as far as this is that if your group isn’t great and barely trudging along someone may leave after they kill the boss they wanted and they don’t need a last boss. You may want to give incentive for people to stay for the entire dungeon and I think you’d also have to allow for people to come in partway to a dungeon.
Not sure why.
My original pitch was flat removing the timers. If you’d like I can drop that and just go back to yelling about removing the timers completely. Otherwise I apologize that throughout the natural flow of a conversation I’ve been attempting to offer ideas or concepts of how a different system could look and that has confused you.
So you’re right. We’ll just remove them and call it a day. Yay teamwork!
I didn’t address not completing the dungeon at all. It’s obvious that you get no loot that way. My statement is that completing a m+ but missing the timer gives you a better loot/time ratio than doing one run over several hours.
I have a question. Why can’t people just time themselves if they like having a timer and leave the rest of us alone to go at our own pace.
If people wanna take 3 hours on their first run thru then let them, if they want to sit and wait for cooldowns then let them, you really don’t have to say in that group if you don’t want to.
If they get loot then what? You got the loot in 40 minutes gratz, they put in 3 hours of work and got the same loot…how does that mean that they don’t deserve the gear? People just played in different ways.
The timer just adds stress where stress does not need to be.
So I ask you. Why is it you can’t download a timer app? There is no reason why raiderIO and the whole selection system you have going couldn’t still exist if the timer meant nothing to the game.
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RNG forging and boredom is the only thing that keeps my groups doing more than 1 key a week after week 2-3. Key finder is going to empty fast without incentives to run the same dungeons over and over again. I fully expect to get heroic + in week 1-2 and then do 1-2 guild only keys a week for the remainder of the season.
If enough people do that, fewer keys will be in LFG. If timers went away? I might never actually pug again.
Probably the same reason you don’t just start a discord for people who want to do 3 hour keys and organize all your runs from there.
The system already supports our playstyle, why would we want to change that?
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Just limit lust to once per dungeon. Easy solution.
Apparently for the same reason other people can’t press the arrow that shrinks the timer and quests in the current ui and leave the rest of us to enjoy a system that works 
.
They already can.
Then turn it off.
But it hasn’t.
Previously when there was no timer on m+, the content difficulty was extremely low. Dungeons became trivial and irrelevant.
Raids have always had a enrage/berserking type timer. They still do.
This is still wrong, no matter how often you ignore raiding.
Dungeon bosses don’t have enrage timers.
Dungeon bosses aren’t the point of m+. They are just part of the process.
Dungeons are not raids. Dungeons are not mini raids.
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I can do all that for myself but I can’t do it for the 4 other minds in the group. It doesn’t matter if I say “taking our time” one of those 4 will still try and beat that timer.
But the game (originally said system, mistake) was originally built to support my play style. It was meant to be a time sink, not a race.
M+ has not changed in regards to timers since its inception. The only major change has been to support your type of groups by getting rid of depleted. I think that’s more than enough.
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m+ was never built to support your playstyle, it has always had timers.
non + dungeons are a different story, and they still exist. Are they outdated in today’s gear? yes. but that is no different than any expansion previous to m+ existing - we outgeared heroic dungeons and then had… only trivial heroic dungeons for the rest of the expansion.
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Then
You have available solutions you are choosing to not do.
Honestly, the only thing I don’t like about timers is the +3 mentality. The +1 timers are extremely forgiving and I’d rather there was a different method for increasing key rather then just ‘finish faster’