Remove the timer from m+ in Shadowlands

It would be harder than what? A m0? Sure.

But it wouldnt be on the same difficulty as timed.

You are suggesting that mechanics should be added that would contradict themselves in difficult.

You can’t make huge packs of mobs, have all mobs increase their health/damage drastically, AND give them all new abilities.

All at the same time.

Well thats gonna sell the devs.

“Hey devs. We don’t care about equal challenge. Make m+ easier so I can get high end loot”.

I don’t imagine why they wouldnt take such a suggestion seriously.

I don’t feel threatened. I am pointing out holes in your suggestions.

I am sorry you feel “threatened” that people have the audacity to disagree with your vague and inexperienced statements.

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except you didn’t. I played in classic/bc too.

yes, very true. it was different content. And frankly, we were different players.

that was a long time ago.

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Here’s something that players can do if they don’t like the timer.

Don’t do Mythic +

Crazy concept I know.

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The devs can tune the bosses however they like until they decide it’s fair enough to offer the loot that it does. The balancing team are really the ones who would decide that. It doesn’t matter if you think it’s unequal challenge.

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I don’t think what you’re suggesting is a good alternative to the timer. I don’t think the game benefits from weeks that lean harder on certain classes than they already do now.

I would like to see the Timers broken up between add’s then boss with a Elisande like time bubble in the middle for breaks. In the bubble all cooldowns would pause and it will be a time for just typing out strats and bio breaks.
You could also use the bubble as a pause when someone leaves, allowing the group to grab a random person from (ONLY) the heroic dungeon que to finish with. (better then nothing and useful on lower keys.)

But that’s just one idea.

Ok?

In that same line of thinking…it doesn’t matter if you want untimed m+.

Being able to replace people would cause so much instant complaining on these forums.

It would be funny to watch. I almost hope they’d do this just for 1 weekend.

Yeah it would be so easy to gear alts. 4 person guild group gets random to do most of the dungeon, kicks them and then swaps in for alt.

No one would be vomiting blood all over General about this one.

If keys were longer, I’d think this a decent suggestion.

But they’re like 30-40 minutes tops. That’s about as long as the average MOBA game, or a quick match of something like Valorant or CSGO. It really isn’t too much to ask for in a single sitting.

In an untimed (or stopwatch) version you’d almost certainly want to move loot away from the whole chest concept and return loot to boss drops, that would be rather important to removing timers, but right now the in-game timer is dictating how much loot quantity whereas player efficiency could dictate that. As far as loot rewards what they may need to do is spread out the dungeon ilevel though so that instead of needing to do a +10 you need to do a +20 which for a lot of people would be rather undoable for them no matter how much time you gave them so you still get that distinction of lesser content lesser rewards.

The idea of taking away the timer is about returning M+ back to the core concept of a dungeon. Kill a boss, get loot, move on. It doesn’t really have to be that much more complex than that. Because the punishment of taking forever to down a dungeon is that you’ve spent all that time in that dungeon. Meanwhile there’s a pro group that’s knocked out 5 dungeons and gotten far more loot than you did because they’re better than you.

But really the idea that dungeon speed is actually a necessity to loot quality is kind of laughable. Blizzard has made difficult dungeons in the past and the punishment for being bad was either not completing the dungeon or spending 2-3 times the typical duration of it. TBC heroics (magister’s terrace specifically) were considered pretty challenging and had some great loot at the time, nobody cared. The content (at least for the time) was considered difficult enough to warrant it.

They would have to redo the conditions to upgrade or down grade a key, as that is based upon you completing or not completing the instance before the timer expires. They are not going to let you spend all day on a single run and still upgrade the key. So there has to be some kind of change to the “win” condition.

Respawns will mean something if you have a real chance of dying and have to deal with them again. You could alter the cooldown on abilities if needed. And if you increased mob packs the time it would take would make things pretty miserable.

With enough demand, it can happen perfectly well.

Your concerns over how it’ll be balanced are left for the balancing team. They could make enemies stronger in untimed m+ to justify the gear. Exactly how strong is really up to the devs to decide.

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Then we’d just do what we do for raids, Soulstone the Healer and reeeee at anyone who releases.

So now your suggestions aren’t just “revamping the entire dungeon system, how mobs work, what abilities mobs have”

to

“rebalancing abilities, nerfing them in raids so that they aren’t able to be used as often in m+”

Sometimes Occam’s Razor is best.

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I don’t feel threatened and I don’t see any cause to be insulting. I was just saying if you don’t have anything constructive to offer why participate? If you believe what I’m saying isn’t workable then what is? I’m not claiming my suggestions are infallible, but I’m trying to suggest something.

This mentality holds for pugs. Not organized groups. Blizz meant M+ to be for organized groups.

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Not when you consider that the loot model with m+ is that the better you do, the more loot you get.

So why should someone get the same loot from timing a +15 in 20 minutes, as by crawling through it over 2 hours?

I don’t think they should.

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So then you’d rather revert everything back to how it was before where dungeons become irrelevant once players start raiding? Cause I can tell you this’ll cause upset for sure.

Well, to be fair… in your scenario I would probably just do 6 keys during that two hour window. So speed is still incentivized.

Though, the end of RNG forging means quantity has less of an impact on quality in SL than it does currently. Hrm.