Remove the Questing Addons

[Uniter-nordrassil]

I think Discord is more dangerous to the community than a LFG addon honestly. With Discord you’ll have groups and communities talking to eachother that has near no reason to talk in general or trade whatsoever if they dont want to and thats using something thats not even within the in game interface.

I as well am not a huge fan of discord, although I use it like butter on retail. My main problem with it in classic is people using it this early on. I would prefer it if people met people within the game, and then chose to use discord with those people that have befriended. I am weary the people who have already tried to set-up community on the server discords are sabotaging their classic experience to a certain extent (unless they are trying to race to 60 for raids).

Regardless I think with the amount of returning players and new players, many who were not around during the rise of discord (which without a doubt is objectively a fairly new method of communication), it is unlikely to effect the play experience of others that a few servers have big discords and what not. Classic servers are looking to be huge!

[Slayt-the-venture-co (Slayt)]

Because it’s not good for the game? the experience? There have been plenty of changes made both to the game and what addons will work and/or how they’ll function. This would be another such a change and a welcome one at that.

Again though it really does affect others. You can try to hand wave that inconvenient fact all you want, but it remains and will remain. Nothing you can say will change that.

I understand that you absolutely, positively ( yes I know you said you’re not going to use it but come on) can’t play this game without quest helper, but to deny it didn’t have any affect on leveling is pretty sad even for you.

Wow it’s this point that we’ve already been over! And yes of course I can do better than this, but I’m trying to keep things down to your level. I’ll repeat my self one more time, yes quest helper doesn’t automate everything, but it sure does encourage and assist with you going brain dead auto pilot in the game, and one more time that’s bad!

First off, when I said I couldn’t point to the source, I meant that I couldn’t point to exactly who or who isn’t using the addon as we’ve already established. Of course you glossed over that and tried misrepresent my point as me being crazy or whatever. A sad attempt at a burn for sure, but not surprising coming from you, it’s all you’re capable of and will ever be capable of.

What amuses me here is that rather than address my points is you simply hand wave everything since you have no argument and repeat ad-nauseum “IT DOESN’T AFFECT YOU!!!” but it does, and it affects more than me it affects the whole community which you clearly don’t care about.

Also I can be against both Quest Helper Addons and TSM. I know your mind is blown, it’s ok take a moment.

No you’re definitely trying to dismiss me. It’s ok I understand you’ve got nothing else, and you’re absolutely seething with anger and frustration because you can’t actually argue against any of mine and other posters well reasoned and thought out arguments.

So go ahead continue to hand wave everything and accuse me and others of “just not liking a thing for exaggerated reasons and cuz we just don’t like the thing!” It’s all you’ve got and all that anyone expects of you.

[Alphons-alleria (Alphons)]

The LFG addon created a separate in game social network that would have infringed upon the more organic Vanilla social structure that is one of the selling points of Classic. A questing addon doesn’t do anything even remotely similar. This is not a witch hunt.

But quest addons go against the spirit of vanilla. Having an addon that shows you where to go defeats the purpouse of asking the community for help if you are stuck.

[Ôwns-proudmoore (Ôwns)]

Because it’s not good for the game? the experience? There have been plenty of changes made both to the game and what addons will work and/or how they’ll function. This would be another such a change and a welcome one at that.

I doubt itll be welcomed considering the popularity count of the addon.

Again though it really does affect others. You can try to hand wave that inconvenient fact all you want, but it remains and will remain. Nothing you can say will change that.

It really doesn’t though.

I understand that you absolutely, positively ( yes I know you said you’re not going to use it but come on) can’t play this game without quest helper, but to deny it didn’t have any affect on leveling is pretty sad even for you.

The discussion wasn’t whether it affected leveling, obviously it has some effect on leveling as it can help guide you to areas. The discussion was the replayability of the game which questhelper has done nothing to damage it. The xp changes, the character buffs that made it so you can pull 7-10 mobs at a time, those are convenience changes that damaged it.

Wow it’s this point that we’ve already been over! And yes of course I can do better than this, but I’m trying to keep things down to your level. I’ll repeat my self one more time, yes quest helper doesn’t automate everything, but it sure does encourage and assist with you going brain dead auto pilot in the game, and one more time that’s bad!

Yes it assists you, but it the RPG elements Im talking about are class quests, weapon leveling, attunement grinds, little things like that Im excited about. Has nothing to do with loot, if all I played for was loot then retail would be what I play exclusively, but Im gonna be focusing on Classic for quite some time.

First off, when I said I couldn’t point to the source, I meant that I couldn’t point to exactly who or who isn’t using the addon as we’ve already established. Of course you glossed over that and tried misrepresent my point as me being crazy or whatever. A sad attempt at a burn for sure, but not surprising coming from you, it’s all you’re capable of and will ever be capable of.

So we had a misunderstanding on your source comment but I stand by my comment about it being your psyche.

and it affects more than me it affects the whole community which you clearly don’t care about.

I do care about the community and this addon does nothing to impact the community.

Also I can be against both Quest Helper Addons and TSM. I know your mind is blown, it’s ok take a moment.

You’re correct, you can be against both. You’re just choosing right now to focus on a harmless addon rather than focusing on a harmful one. Your choice.

It’s ok I understand you’ve got nothing else, and you’re absolutely seething with anger and frustration because you can’t actually argue against any of mine and other posters well reasoned and thought out arguments.

You’re the one coming off condescending and aggressive. Its obvious you’re the one that is seething with anger and frustration. Ive been level headed this whole time.

[Slayt-the-venture-co (Slayt)]

And I’m sure the LFG addon would have been incredibly popular if it were allowed to go through, doesn’t mean that it being addressed isn’t a welcome change.

It really does though.

Completely disingenuous and sad to say that quest helper doesn’t affect the replay-ability of the game when you earlier admitted that it helps people 100 percent zones and not miss anything on their first go of said zone.

What’s your point here exactly? Oh that’s right quest helper addons don’t have much of an impact on the RPG elements you care about and so that’s all that matters to you. Gotcha.

That’s because you want to hand wave everything I and others have said and insist it’s all in my head. Again, I understand this is all you’ve got. Carry on.

No you really don’t, and this addon absolutely affects the whole community.

Both are harmful and I’m focusing on the one I care about more. Nothing wrong with that, nice try though

“I’m not mad you’re mad!” Na, I’m not mad at all and if you think you’ve been level headed hooo boy. It’s OK, relax take a couple of deep breaths.

[Ôwns-proudmoore (Ôwns)]

And I’m sure the LFG addon would have been incredibly popular if it were allowed to go through, doesn’t mean that it being address isn’t a welcome change.

The funny thing about the LFG addon is that it has the same effect as the group finder tool that was brought in Legion, not the ones that were brought in Wrath and Cata… If the Legion one was introduced into the game before LFD/LFR was, we’d likely never would of had LFD/LFR get introduced but it is what it is. Its unfortunate ClassicLFG was never given a chance.

Completely disingenuous and sad to say that quest helper doesn’t affect the replay-ability of the game when you earlier admitted that it helps people 100 percent zones and not miss anything on their first go of said zone.

And those same people still create alts whether they 100 percented it or not. Hence the replayability factor. I cant tell you how many times I 100 percented OoT and still find it enjoyable to replay. However you’re entitled to your opinion of 100 percenting things meaning it can never be played again.

What’s your point here exactly? Oh that’s right quest helper addons don’t have much of an impact on the RPG elements you care about and so that’s all that matters to you. Gotcha.

My point is you asked if its too much to ask to care about the RPG elements of the game… I pointed out to you that I do.

No you really don’t, and this addon absolutely affects the whole community.

So vanilla is known to be when the community was at its best, its strongest and the entire reason why this game will be so much better than Retail. Yet quest helpers were alive and well in those golden years.

“I’m not mad you’re mad!” Na, I’m not mad at all and if you think you’ve been level headed hooo boy. It’s OK, relax take a couple of deep breaths.

If you cant see from how you write your messages that you’re being aggressive and not level headed then Im not sure what to tell you.

[Slayt-the-venture-co (Slayt)]

Yes, those people create alts, but going back to a zone after you 100 percented it versus going back to it and discovering something new is a completely different experience. If you can’t see that one is better for replay-ability then there is not much I can do for you here.

Cool and my point is that you care about some of the rpg elements, and not others and don’t care if the ones you don’t care about are affected. Not so cool.

Yes the community was better despite quest helpers (and due to the fact that they weren’t as useful and well known) Besides that why not shoot for a community that’s even better than the one in Vanilla? We can’t recreate Vanilla, but who says we can’t have something even better?

I write my messages with my tongue firmly in my cheek, how you interpret them is on you.

[Padrepwn-kiljaeden (Padrepwn)]

Go ahead. You can’t ban my memory or wowhead on a 2nd monitor. The closer to launch the more illogical this place gets.
The meta changed anyways. The new cool is dungeon leveling so yea. Good luck with your non Vanilla changes.
Funny how some of the no change crowd are now pro changes. They get one c
non Vanilla change and now want more. The slippery slope is real. At this rate we will see flying monks in the game. Hypocrisy.
#addgbanksnext

[Ôwns-proudmoore (Ôwns)]

Yes, those people create alts, but going back to a zone after you 100 percented it versus going back to it and discovering something new is a completely different experience. If you can’t see that one is better for replay-ability then there is not much I can do for you here.

Nah I get what you’re saying but questhelper hasnt done anything to stop people replaying the zones. Even with questhelper Im sure they are spotting new things while theyre out in the zones. Just because you 100 percent the quests and uncover all the shades areas on the map doesn’t mean that you found everything.

Cool and my point is that you care about some of the rpg elements, and not others and don’t care if the ones you don’t care about are affected. Not so cool.

Like I said, you care about the lore and I hope the lore is great for you. So obviously I do care if the rpg elements do it for you that dont do it for me. Cool thing is you dont have to use questhelper and you can experience all of it. Its totally your choice.

Yes the community was better despite quest helpers (and due to the fact that they weren’t as useful and well known) Besides that why not shoot for a community that’s even better than the one in Vanilla? We can’t recreate Vanilla, but who says we can’t have something even better?

This community is already going to be different than it was back then. Discord is going to sever a lot of the community interaction, that is an obvious fact. Theres no indication on whether questhelper not being in the game would do anything to create a “better vanilla”

I write my messages with my tongue firmly in my cheek, how you interpret them is on you.

You write your messages with hostility. You leave no room for misinterpretation.

[Slayt-the-venture-co (Slayt)]

I never said it did? I said that it made replaying those zones less fun, less exciting, less mysterious. Sure you might have missed a few small things here or there, but the big stuff well that’s a different matter.

Right, but when other people use quest helper and skip all the lore and the quests that affects me and everyone else who cares about it. I’ll say it again it’s hard to care about an RPG when no one else does. You can say “IT DOESN’T AFFECT YOU!” all you like, but it doesn’t make it true and it never will.

Certainly we don’t know for sure, but a community that cares more about the quests, the characters, the story. Understands that it’s an MMORPG and not just an MMO that sounds like a pretty nice community to me. There’s no guarantee we’ll have a better community than Vanilla, but we may as well try.

I understand you feel that way because you’re upset, you’re angry, and you’re frustrated. Take a step back, relax, after all it’s just a silly 15 year old video game

[Kraggy-shandris]

It allows players to automate their questing experience by guiding them to the location of each quest which is not inline with the Classic experience which required players to read text and socialize to discover the location of questing mobs and items.

You’re right, ‘vanilla’ didn’t have add-ons like Questie, etc … WE USED THOTBOTT!

Few people EVER played the game entirely looking at WOW’s screen, WOW saw the rise of what would become the ‘wikis’ in the form of Thotbott, Alakazham, and others.

[Ôwns-proudmoore (Ôwns)]

I never said it did? I said that it made replaying those zones less fun, less exciting, less mysterious. Sure you might have missed a few small things here or there, but the big stuff well that’s a different matter.

I would think whether you’re using questhelper or not if you do the same zone multiple times each time afterwards is less fun, less exciting and less mysterious.

Right, but when other people use quest helper and skip all the lore and the quests that affects me and everyone else who cares about it. I’ll say it again it’s hard to care about an RPG when no one else does. You can say “IT DOESN’T AFFECT YOU!” all you like, but it doesn’t make it true and it never will.

But how do you know if they skipped it unless they told you? That seems to be putting too much importance into what others are doing. Especially for a game that was created with solo players in mind.

Certainly we don’t know for sure, but a community that cares more about the quests, the characters, the story. Understands that it’s an MMORPG and not just an MMO that sounds like a pretty nice community to me. There’s no guarantee we’ll have a better community than Vanilla, but we may as well try.

Even in the days of retail not having great expansions you still have people who care about the quests and are immersed in the lore of it. You see it all the time on general discussion people talking about it. Theres been a lot of new fun quests introduced this expansion. Id rather we have a guarenteed good community regardless of questhelper being in the game rather than lose community and end up with a bad community on a gamble.

I understand you feel that way because you’re upset, you’re angry, and you’re frustrated. Take a step back, relax, after all it’s just a silly 15 year old video game

If you could explain what is making you think Im upset, angry and frustrated then I’ll try and correct it?

[Droodboy-area-52]

Yikes these people are still upset about the blue post from yesterday?

This isn’t going to happen. Give it up already.

[Slayt-the-venture-co (Slayt)]

Of course, but quest helper is going to expedite that process, and depending on how many alts you end up making and whether they’re the same faction some zones may still retain their sense of wonder.

We’ve been over this, I won’t know if an individual used Quest Helper addons unless they told me, true. It’s the overall affect it has on the community where it leads to people auto piloting the game, not caring about the quests or the zones and just not caring about the RPG aspects of the game that leads to the community treating the game as nothing but a dragon killing simulator rather than a fleshed out MMORPG.

If they’re smart about it you’d never know if a person botted or bought gold, but you’d still understand that them doing so is bad for the game yes?

Sure, people care about the lore and quests on the forums, but we’ve already established the forums aren’t the best representation of everyone in the game. And again if Quest Helper addons are the only reason people are playing Classic, then Classic is not the right game for them.

Just a hunch, but when you suggested that all of the reasons I and others in thread had laid out about why we don’t want quest helper addons were “just in my head” It seemed like you were getting a bit miffed.

[Plumpington-illidan]

Slayt you have 88 posts in this thread, might want to take a step back

[Droodboy-area-52]

He was in the LFG addon threads yesterday telling everyone how it’s so great and how it shouldn’t be removed. Guess he’s still upset about the blue post

[Slayt-the-venture-co (Slayt)]

Who me? Because I wasn’t…

[Ôwns-proudmoore (Ôwns)]

Of course, but quest helper is going to expedite that process, and depending on how many alts you end up making and whether they’re the same faction some zones may still retain their sense of wonder.

Depends on how you use questhelper. If youre going for the optimal leveling speed part of it then you’re gonna miss a lot and the next time you do one if your focus is different then you’ll be going about it a different way. Like unless you’re talking about the 9th or 10th time someone is doing a zone that never 100 percented it and isnt using questhelper then this is a non issue.

We’ve been over this, I won’t know if an individual used Quest Helper addons unless they told me, true. It’s the overall affect it has on the community where it leads to people auto piloting the game, not caring about the quests or the zones and just not caring about the RPG aspects of the game that leads to the community treating the game as nothing but a dragon killing simulator rather than a fleshed out MMORPG.

At some point even if you removed it people are going to be auto piloting the game. Infact at launch you’re gonna have people auto piloting that isnt even using questhelper. It would make a lot more sense for you to argue removing questhelper in retail than in classic where regardless of whether youre using it or not everything just takes longer and theres so much more of the rpg elements whereas in retail if you took out questhelper it might atleast arbitrarily extend the time it takes to do the 10 levels.

If they’re smart about it you’d never know if a person botted or bought gold, but you’d still understand that them doing so is bad for the game yes?

I dont think botting or buying gold is a good comparison. Botting is fully automated for one, questhelper is not automated at all. Both are against the ToS and Blizzard has fully endorsed questhelper tech.

Sure, people care about the lore and quests on the forums, but we’ve already established the forums aren’t the best representation of everyone in the game. And again if Quest Helper addons are the only reason people are playing Classic, then Classic is not the right game for them.

Obviously questhelper wouldnt be the only reason they’re playing classic, it was specifically referencing it adding to their enjoyment of the game.

Just a hunch, but when you suggested that all of the reasons I and others in thread had laid out about why we don’t want quest helper addons were “just in my head” It seemed like you were getting a bit miffed.

Nah not at all.

[Puntdagnomes-alterac-mountains]

@Greenshayna-argent-dawn

However, when an add-on goes beyond presenting information or providing aesthetic customization, and attempts to create an interconnected social network that relies on other players also using that same add-on, we are likely to scrutinize it particularly closely.

Quest helpers present information.

[Bigbuffdaddy-elune]

I already stated if even if it’s a minority who decide to play the game and engage the RPG aspect of it, then it’s worth it

The argument you are using here is identical to what the Democrats who want to ban gun ownership are saying…“If it saves even one life it’s worth it” Sure ok let’s outlaw guns to “save lives” and completely ignore the fact that criminals don’t follow laws and will just keep theirs. If that ever happened every law abiding citizen becomes a helpless target. In the end, just like the gun scenario, what you are proposing will do nothing positive at all and just piss everyone else off