Remove the Debuff Cap / Buff Cap, Make WoW Fun Again!

yes, warriors and rogues are melee specialists. for defense, rogues have lots of defensive resources to fall back on, while warriors rely on being tanky to survive.

you’re correct that to only think about the 3 roles (dps/tank/heal) when deciding who is or isn’t a hybrid is PURE retail mentality. Which is ironic because despitebeing supposedly hates retail :expressionless:

1 Like

Wrong, this terminology predates Vanilla and is the foundation for its Class design. The devs design intent is even present in the class’s talent trees: Rogues were inherently provided %Hit and +Weapon skill and warriors were not. That is a cut and dry example of how the original design meant for rogues to be the purebred melee dps.

The issue is that the devs did not forsee their design being combed through by 15 years worth of theorycrafting and its flaws were eventually discovered/exploited.

Rogues didn’t get weapon skill in their talents in patch 1.12, the very last patch of the game, after Naxx release, after TBC and its upcoming nerfs to weapon skills were already planned :joy:

How embarrassing!

The point stands: Rogues were the originally intended melee DPS purebred. You’ve got nothing.

For the vast majority of WoW’s existence, Warriors had a relatively easy way to obtain weapon skill (buy Edgemaster’s Handguards, an item that was available from day 1) vs. Rogues who needed high level drops from Dire Maul (not in game at launch btw) to get any sort of weapon skill.

That Blizzard gave it to Rogues in a talent after Naxx was already released doesn’t mean anything. If anything, that just goes to show how much power creep came from the talents over time.

Edgies is an:
Epic
Worlddrop
Mail item
that requires a level of 44 to equip.

Now think a lil harder about what that implies.

Not warriors

You are a :clown_face:

1 Like

Despitebeing has a case and has made one.

Where DB messes up is DB says “thats why warriors are hybrids” instead of saying “this is why I consider warriors to be like hybrids”.

Warriors are, undeniably, a hybrid class.

Yes, we know where you stand - you have given us your opinion on this many times.

Note: Not tanking, in fact for the opposite: not taking hits & lowering/ERASING all threat

Now, count the number of taunts, mitigation, and +threat modifiers in the Warrior class.

I don’t think this is how Blizzard themselves classified things though, which is the issue. In a holy trinity game where the expectation is that you have a person who holds aggro, people who do damage, and people who heal…hybrid is and always was defined as someone who can creep in to more than just one of those at the same time.

Paladins were hybrids. Druids were hybrids. Priests were hybrids. Warriors were hybrids. Shamans were hybrids.

Warriors are the only one out of that list who excels optimally at both roles when speccing in focus to their available roles.

“melee” and “caster” are roles too, but not in the context of how the word “hybrid” is used in this context (which is only referring to the holy trinity).

To add insult to injury, one could even argue that Warrior does both near optimally without even needing to change specs or even gear (in modern perspectives of how the class is played).

Point being: Warriors are an incredible exception to a rule that is essentially followed by every other class, and Blizzard is on record saying that this rule existed for their class design in vanilla.

None of this means I am in favor of any of that changing though, like Corpseknife I accept things the way they are, even if it’s kinda silly. That’s kinda the whole charm of classic.

This is how Everquest classifies things. WoW ripped its classes from EQ.

No one calls Warriors a hybrid in Everquest, even though EQ Warriors are exactly like WoW Warriors (i.e. they do the most damage when raid geared)

False. I’m providing quantitative metrics. It’s not my opinion that warriors have more taunts and +threat/mitigation modifiers. By raw numbers, their kit possess the most tanking tools.

Their kit also has the highest potential for melee dps output.

That is 2 roles where their kit outperforms all others

Poor argument. This isn’t Everquest and it’s irrelevant how inspired it is from Everquest.

Under your logic, Paladins aren’t hybrids because melee was an intrinsic element of all 3 of their roles, and yes, that includes holy.

Tell us more how you know nothing about EQ. Warriors are (rightfully) the kings of tanking in that game.

They are hybrids in the sense that they have magic and spell casting abilities. I said exactly that in my post. But they are also closer to Rogue/Warrior than any other class in WoW.

WoW Paladins are alone on that island because they don’t have a counterpart (EQ had Shadow Knights).

Debuff limit barely affects warlocks, sbolt is overwhelming majority of damage still. However no world buffs helps, flask of supreme power is especially strong in phase 1, AND SoM added mechanics to MC that penalized melee.

Even if you completely ignore DoT’s (lol) Shadow Weaving and Curse of Shadows are mandatory for Warlocks to do any meaningful amount of damage.

Why would you make room for these when there’s a debuff limit?

“Hybrid tax”, in the discourse relating to WoW balance, has always referred to the trinity roles. It’s that simple.

https://www.engadget.com/2009-10-27-ghostcrawler-and-the-hybrid-tax.html

You can’t out-logic this. You’re wrong.