Sounds like a player sucks issue and not a Ret issue.
It also means you are looking at your ret paladin from that one angle only and forgetting everything else a ret paladin can provide your raid with - which is totally fair and fine btw - but thats what I mean by subjective. Not every single person and raid looks at parses and parses only. There’s more that goes into a raid spot than that although thats probably the largest contributor in todays world.
You ask whats viable and I’ll ask what actually gatekeeps players from raiding - the answer to which is other players.
I mean I think that’s a little “unfair” to even the most optimal ret player. We know they’re essentially mathematically unable to reach the bar of even the lowest damage dealing pures in ideal scenarios.
Im not afraid dude, just disappointed. But thats WoW and its community for you.
God forbid we all just be somewhat grateful we have it and try to enjoy it without trying to torture some meaning into it like this freakin matters even one little bit. But no, we always think we can do better or make it better. Its unplayable otherwise, right?
We cant even play the game in a way that keeps the devs from making changes to save us from ourselves because we literally cant handle the responsibility of not cheating and exploiting. All those changes you pointed to as “evidence” were the players being idiots about 60 wow and doing it all wrong.
I guess I cant blame you for going down this route then. Being dumb is pretty much how you get classic era changes so bravo to you sir.
It is and it isn’t. Its unfair because the ret paladin can’t help it. Its fair because you have to choose to be a ret paladin.
At the end of the day though the ret paladin is being disqualified on account of how the game is played in the modern age and not because there is zero place for a ret paladin on a raid roster by any and all metrics.
There is nothing to be disappointed about. You didn’t spend 50 posts dodging a reflection in the mirror only to just now warm up to an earnest discussion. Our whole time ITT, you have been posting anything to steer conversation away from this topic.
Going into this game, we all knew that #NoChanges was not happening. It wasn’t a surprise in 2019 and still isn’t 4 years later. Better put:
“Earnest discussion” is impossible with you seeing as you aren’t earnest and the whole concept is lost on you from the get go.
I only agreed with you for the sake of discussion so we can get the point where we find out you don’t actually have one. At least we finally got here and it only took me 50 posts instead of the usual 75. You just don’t like Era Class balance and your reasons and intentions are dubious at best.
I can be convinced that warriors are hybrids.
I can be convinced theyre top tanks and top melee dps.
What you cant convince me of is that this is something worthy of note, needs intervention, criticism or even a slightly angry sentiment. It just is what it is and you either like it or you don’t. Feel however you want but you certainly dont get to tell me whats at stake here and why that is. You could be some crackpot for all I know.
Then they were playing wrong. There is no reason to skip Immolate or Siphon Life in a world with no debuff limit.
Also not sure what Warlocks you’re looking at… I scrolled through them just now and I see Immolate and Corruption and even the occasional Drain Life/Curse of Agony used by every single one. Some were not playing SM/Ruin in Naxx (and therefore did not have Siphon Life because they’re not talented for it) but the ones that did absolutely used it.
SoM population vs. 2019 Classic population graphs on ironforge.pro are almost identical. The main exception is that 2019 Classic peaked about a month after BWL opened (when covid lockdowns hit) while SoM peaked right as BWL opened. SoM didn’t have any more of a drop off during AQ/Naxx than 2019 Classic.
World buffs are cheating, period. The chronoboon is proof. On Era, people don’t speed run raids with their buffs on all the way through for the fun of it. They keep their buffs booned and then unboon to cheese certain bosses.
Go ahead and quote me for an instance of insincerity ITT. My stance has remained consistent this entire discussion and the purpose for each of my posts has been for developing that argument. You will flippantly prop up whatever fabrication you deem fit to steer the conversation.
Wrong. You have dug your heels through this thread in order to not talk about my point. Not even because you disagree with it, but because you don’t like where that discussion leads next.
The way I don’t agree with you but yet find everything you say pretty much true is weird lol.
I think that every class has a thing that they bring to a raid. In that sense, the statement of “everything is viable” makes sense…
…but raid slots are not infinite, they are limited, and there are other classes in the game who also brings things.
If what you bring does not mathematically accumulate enough contribution to out-do bringing someone else, you’ve become “not-viable” within the context of the raid who is filling the slots by measure of contribution (which is most raids).
If a liberal raid who is pretty flex with what people play brings a ret paladin, that ret paladin isn’t bringing nothing. Same to a boomkin, they’ve got the spell crit stuff, like we all get that.
However, if it can’t amount in value to more than bringing the other better stuff, then it cancels itself out, no?
So sure, every class “has a place”, but since there are not infinite places and there is no harm in not maximally diversifying those places amongst the available playstyles in vanilla, most people tend to define “viable” in vanilla as a class that isn’t basically acting as an anchor when being played even at maximum efficiency.
Yes. You’ve been telling me what to think the whole time.
Im not trying to censor you. Make ten new threads on it if youre so convinced of its validity. I wont even reply to rain on your parade. But dont engage me and then assume I should automatically agree with you because you have some weird fetish about warriors.
You don’t have a point. That’s my point. You have an observation based on some whacked out ideal that Im supposed to automatically buy into so you can we can reverse engineer your bias into something that looks like a coherent argument except its all feels and condemnations.
I dont care that Despitebeing has reasons to dislike warriors, I can like the game the way it is and not feel ashamed and DB is just going to have to find a way to live with it.
Due to the current buff limit being at 32, Resto Druids have to not put full HoTs on tanks when they are fully buffed with world buffs, or else the buffs would get pushed off.
And the debuff limit is the worst of all. You cannot raid as and affliction warlock because other debuffs take precedence since the debuff slots are limited. Balance druids and shadow priests also deal with this and this is why they are all hardly ever seen in raid comps.
