Remove the Debuff Cap / Buff Cap, Make WoW Fun Again!

[Axewipe-whitemane]

It is 100% the debuff limit and you’re insane if you’re arguing otherwise.

[Zipzo-fairbanks]

Here’s a 2006 thread of people using the word “hybrid” on the Druid Grove forum for World of Warcraft.

https://thedruidsgrove.org/archive/wow/t-11372.html

Well. The title says it: Hybrid Gear. I’ve done a lot of research on DPS gear, tanking gear, healing gear… but what I was never sure of was hybrid gear.

I completed the 8/8 Feralheart and I find it extremely suitable for playing in the Hybrid role. Helping my r/l friends on assorted quests I have Tanked, DPS’d and Main Healed using nothing but feralheart and just simply swapping out Weapon(s),

Sure seems like to me in Vanilla people used the term “hybrid” in the exact way I’ve explained to you here.

I played vanilla and that’s how I’ve always used the term as well.

It’s fine you have your own personal definition but it’s not applicable in this discussion.

[Axewipe-whitemane]

@Axewipe-whitemane

Hunters, Druids, Shamans are hybrids (have melee and ranged combat).

Please read my post again. I said the above.

Druids wearing gear that allows them to tank and heal at the same time is exactly what the original definition of a hybrid was!

[Zipzo-fairbanks]

Lol, you’ll backpedal all the way around the planet on this I’m sure, but I have more sources that I’ll go ahead and post sequentially just to watch you squirm harder and harder.

…or you could just stop being stupid on purpose and admit you’re wrong.

[Axewipe-whitemane]

I have been consistent from my first post to now.

Warriors are pure melee. Druids are hybrids.

[Zipzo-fairbanks]

Warriors are (and have been considered always) hybrids due to their ability to do more than 1 role.

They are a 2-way hybrid, as opposed to a 3-way one, but hybrids nonetheless.

[Axewipe-whitemane]

Not true in Everquest. Not true in Classic WoW!

It is true in TBC and beyond because that’s when “prot warrior” became the only build that could tank. But Classic doesn’t work like that.

[Robokappa-sargeras (Robokappa)]

what’s stopping them now?

[Zipzo-fairbanks]

If we’re going by original design intention you can’t take the modern day meta of warriors tanking as dual wield fury (from the private servers) as an argument for how warriors are not hybrids.

This isn’t about you.

[Corpseknife-mankrik]

@Despitebeing-incendius

False. I’m providing quantitative metrics. It’s not my opinion that warriors have more taunts and +threat/mitigation modifiers. By raw numbers, their kit possess the most tanking tools.

Their kit also has the highest potential for melee dps output.

That is 2 roles where their kit outperforms all others

Its your opinion that this makes it a hybrid. You’re limiting hybrid to a strict definition beholden only to the holy trilogy. That’s your prerogative. No one has to see that your way though.

Edit: At the end of the day tanking is melee. It cant be helped thats involved with both tanking and dps. Its not the warriors fault.

[Axewipe-whitemane]

Warriors tanked while dual wielding in Everquest. They tanked while dual wielding in 2004-2006 WoW.

Was it the main build? No, but that’s because WoW was the first MMO to go mainstream and people didn’t understand it. The original C’thun fight (which I beat in SoM) was clearly designed for dual wield tanks. In my opinion, the reason why that fight was “mathematically impossible” was because they had a bunch of fully defensive Warriors doing no damage… but that’s another story for another day.

[Despitebeing-incendius]

@Corpseknife-mankrik

Its your opinion

You are incapable of debating the quantitative statements I’ve made and are now making yourself into a broken record.

@Corpseknife-mankrik

You’re limiting hybrid to a strict definition beholden only to the holy trilogy.

False. You’ll notice I haven’t used that terminology once.

[Kerpz-moon-guard]

sounds like a classic + thing

[Zipzo-fairbanks]

You’re still just factually wrong.

A hybrid is any class that is capable of filling (at least partially) roles primarily held by other classes. A paladin is a hybrid because it can tank in lieu of a Warrior, and heal in lieu of a Priest. A Shaman is a hybrid because it can deal damage in lieu of a Rogue/Hunter/Mage, but also heals in lieu of a Priest. A Rogue is NOT a hybrid because they deal melee damage, that is their primary role. They cannot heal, tank, or crowd control (sap aside).

https://web.archive.org/web/20060110035909/http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/basics/partyroles.html - Blizzard, 2006

Notice how they are referring specifically to the functions of healing, dealing damage, or tanking. There’s zero mention of whether you’re melee or ranged.

Let’s go ahead and rewind it back to the absolute earliest iteration of this page, November 2004, the literal MONTH AND YEAR that World of Warcraft released:

A hybrid is a class that isn’t really a tank and isn’t really a caster. Such classes include the Hunter, Rogue, and Druid in certain form. Hybrids typically assist main tanks in combat or act as a tank when none is available.

https://web.archive.org/web/20041110012450/http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/basics/partyroles.html - Blizzard, 2004

Clearly their understanding of the world evolved slightly in just a year, but still, Warriors are clearly implied to be hybrids in this case, and the implication that the word “hybrid” is beholden only to your profile within the holy trinity is pretty solid.

I thought these would be enough to laugh you out of the room as you respond again trying to squirm in to your next excuse about how you are somehow not laughably wrong, but I have more just in case.

[Axewipe-whitemane]

Every single one of these specifically do NOT mention Warrior when talking about a hybrid.

The Rogue mention is weird. I don’t think even you would agree with that. But aside from that, it’s pretty consistent with what I have said.

[Zipzo-fairbanks]

This isn’t about Warriors, it’s about the meaning of the word “hybrid” to blizzard.

Given the definition of the world is identical to that of 2009 Blizzard, you can take most of what ghostcrawler says to apply universally across all prior expansions (that he was still the lead systems designer for!).

Hybrid refers to a class who can do multiple roles within the holy trinity. Period. In WoW, it always has referred to that. Objectively. Factually. PERIOD. Your everquest citations are useless. Your opinions are useless. You’re arguing against historical FACT.

[Axewipe-whitemane]

This conversation started because someone said Warriors are hybrids. My point all along has been that no, Warriors are not hybrids.

[Zipzo-fairbanks]

They are because they fit the literal definition (Blizzard’s) of hybrids.

[Axewipe-whitemane]

Not how Classic works, sorry bud. Blizzard never called Warriors a hybrid in the 2004-2006 era.

Go on the Classic EQ forums and call Warriors a hybrid there. You’ll get laughed off.

[Zipzo-fairbanks]

Wtf?

Who here is talking about Everquest? Only you?

Yup, it’s only you.

Is this what it’s like to watch someone self-implode under the weight of how wrong they are? It’s oddly satisfying yet still irritating for some reason.