What misinformation?
Blizzard did a survey. The writing is on the wall. I’m happy they are looking into the idea. It’s obvious the community is split on the toxic timer and it should be seriously discussed to change it for something else. This isn’t an esport day to day. It’s a game for fun and enjoyment.
15817 posts in 1327 days. Are you ok?
This is gaslighting. You very well know that you tried for 40 posts to spread misinformation about how this season’s numbers are terrible and on a downward trend. It took you forever even after seeing the number to admit you were wrong only for you to try and swing another caveat argument that was also wrong.
I showed you numbers, did the stats, and showed you a scatter plot.
You also tried to spread misinformation about how Delves is the most popular content without having any metrics to back it up.
This is nuts. What are you on about?
Delves is more popular it’s common sense. It’s solo content and the same across all MMORPG’s. It’s obvious. I don’t need to go searching for data on that. It’s well known in the gaming MMORPG industry.
15817 posts in 1327 days. Are you doing alright? Do you work?
Oh no, we’re about to break through the “I make more money than you” wall. And if you think that playing wow for 20 years makes you in any way unique, special, or qualified you’re crazy. Let’s talk about people we’ve worked for who were terrible at their paid jobs after decades doing them. You’re so full of it/yourself you need therapy.
Huh? Didn’t say anything about salary. Been playing MMORPG’s a long time is all. It’s my favorite type of game. Pantheon soon too.
Was hoping for a response to this but I guess it got lost in the arguments.
Yes, I agree. When I started playing these types of games it was all about helping each other and enjoying the friendships and relationships you made along the way. I don’t know when that changed for WoW for me personally. I’ve tried many guilds over the years and the bickering and fights about this or that turned me off to the point after last xpac I think I’ll just try solo for awhile and pug for the weeklies. I’ve taken many breaks to try different MMORPG’s but basically stayed with WoW for this long because frankly it’s free to play since I’ve been playing so long and been able to save gold to buy the sub.
I will try Pantheon as it will be similar to the orginal Everquest and if it grabs me or I meet some likeminded people to share my free time with I will stay there. WoW isn’t going anywhere anytime soon.
Need to get off this PC anyway. My husky is getting very frustrated watching me type.
Have a great day!
Again, you can’t state that it’s more popular out of thin air. Claiming “common sense” is not data. Do you know why, because anyone can make a claim and say it’s common sense.
M+ is more popular, it’s common sense. That’s a weak argument.
The ultimate extreme of this, assuming the bosses are still killable if the trash gets this bad, is to hard cc all but one mob from every pull, bloodlust/hero, wait 10 minutes while chain cc’ing the pack, repeat for the next mob, ad infinitum ad nauseum.
This would be unbelievably boring, but if it would allow people to push 1 key higher, I have no doubt that it would happen. A 20 minute dungeon could take days. While this is a very niche extreme, it’s philosophically the wrong way to make engaging content.
M+ in WoW is basically Greater Rifts (GRs) in D3, except with a greater group dependency dynamic. You don’t have the need for a Tank/Healer role in D3 like you do for WoW dungeons, so in a lot of ways D3 GRs were satisfying because you could do the content solo, and in a group as long as your group matched your damage/survivability expectations. In general, it was easier to run GR keys in D3 because of the lack of group dynamic dependencies, and not a lot of overhead time spent critiquing who was queuing as a result. You could also push keys solo to a certain point, so it wasn’t a big deal if a group couldn’t do a particular rift level.
I agree that death counters will turn this into a glorified Torghast, and while that’s not fun for me, it may be for others (remember also, though, that Torghast had soft timers in the form of torments, and after timer expired for a floor unleashed the Tarragrue which wiped you). In Torghast, they shifted away from the death counter eventually also, only to converge on a scoring system.
All this to say, I think more important than how we measure progress in M+ is matching the correct skill and playstyle within groups, as I think that’s the majority of frustration in the community. For example, if you convert to death counters, you will still have participants who mismatch expectations with a slow-roll playstyle to avoid death count increments, to a fast-paced playstyle that the community built through the M+ timer culture. While the scoring system offered by M+ ratings are one way to evaluate players with similar skills, too much is left up to the individuals to critique applicants, resulting in requirement inflation (same issue of requiring AOTC for participating in a normal raid, for example). I think the community would be better suited to an automated matchmaking algorithm for M+ players (M+ finder), perhaps tiered by M+/Dungeon/Ilvl score. This is done for PVP, so can’t be a far stretch for a similar mechanism in M+.
Why cant we have both? Timer or death counter, or we can make delve drop crest so u only wanna do timer if ure into sweating. But still the elephant of tank nerfs or cc changes havent left the room. Wtb brew buffs
It’s redundant. The timer is directly impacted by deaths as it is.
This is something I agree with. Highly neglected.
I love how people think this will actually make for less toxic play. It’ll definitely make it worse.
One death to a mistake that will happen bc we are human and the nerd rage will consume all lol
I agree with you to a point. Playing devils advocate here.
How about mythic 1-15 have the death count, then timer as well from there.
From 1-15 the death count gets tighter.
And as the key gets higher afyer 15, the timer gets tighter. That way those that come from solo into M+ can get their feet wet before having the timer thrown at them.
Im a little out of touch with M+ since legion so Im just pulling numbers as an example cause how high does the mythic key go anyway?
It cant make it worse, from what i have seen from the forums and putside posts, M+ in WoW has replaced LOL as the supreme souce of salt and acid in the world. But thats just my opinion. TBH most of the wow community has become “me me me now now now.”
And im quite happy sitting here with the less vocal minority enjoying ourselves.
This is pretty much how it is already. The timer for every dungeon is 31.5-37.5 minutes long. Which is more than enough time to take things slow and do one pack at a time in low and mid level keys. In +2-6 (previous +12-16) you are allowed to have many deaths where each one removes 5 seconds from the timer. Starting from +7 and up (previous +17) it switches to a loss of 15 seconds per death.
The current system essentially has a death counter that’s tied into the timer even though there is not hard limit of deaths, just theoretical limits based on group performance.
It absolutely can get worse. I would also strongly advise that you not use the forums or reddit to gauge the temperature of anything. Less than 5% of the player bases uses the forums where the large majority of them come here just to complain. They don’t represent the larger community. There’s been over 100 million successful M+ keys, friends made, and communities built. We hardly, if ever, see threads about them, but that doesn’t mean they don’t happen. The large majority of M+ runs are done by pugs.
Is there toxicity and a community issue? Absolutely, but it’s also not as bad as people make it out to be.
Yeah what key level are we talking cause 10’s already give you the max rewards and no where near the level where you need to stop between pulls. If we are talking 12’s and above then yes there should be a timer cause people pushing like the challenge. For everyone else we just want our vaults and to be able to get the gilded or target farm specific gear.
Absalutly true!
To be frank, i could care about as much as my dog does about my comfort when he jumps on my lap and produces a cloud that would make a affliction lock balk.
I was just throwing out options, but untill the community pulls their collective head i feom the “me me me, now now now” mentality then tbh i stand with blizz. Make em work for their gear.
I mean its no skin off my sack as i trundle through enjoying the game and doing what i want. After all
For most of us its a game
For those that are complaining… i ask are rhey doi g the world firsts? Probably not.
Are they even remotely linked to a world first guild/ community?
Ill give you 30:1 odds. (0.5:1 if they actually think they cam make a living complaining like they do)
They are the noisy c graders, the kind of people that vreated gearscore, or thi k just because theyve done somwthing theyre better than everyone else. Or as i call them PEBKAC’s
I enjoy tormenting them now afyer ive tried reasoning with them… but they lace any form of logic or common sense(think a drunk 4 year old)
Ive been squelched before for my comments… provaly wikl happen again. But ill sign off the same way i always do these days, community accountabity has been lostm that is the provlem. Fix that and tou fix the toxic
The timer adds difficulty to the run. A +10 without the timer would be significantly easier to meet the win conditions and rank up the key. If they removed the timer, they would have to tune up everything to maintain the same difficulty.
That’s the thing though. Everyone wants it, but it doesn’t mean they need it or should get it. Top tier rewards was never meant to be obtained by everyone.
Answer this question. Why is it that people expect or feel entitled to top tier M+ rewards, but not top tier Raid rewards?
That’s already available for everyone who is qualified for it as things stand. Why change the timer to death count for something that’s working when it will have various horrific consequences at almost every key level?